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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 12:44:47 GMT -6
One thing this mod with a 20kton limit for CL's needs is enabling up to 8inch guns for those CL's. This would mean that the end evolution of the CL is the modern CA, while the "reborn" CA will be the Alaska equivalents they most times turn out to be. Interesting concept, I suppose you'd then re-class the 8" gunned heavy cruisers as CL which... isn't too unreasonable it seems.
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Post by tbr on Jan 6, 2018 8:37:59 GMT -6
The "CL" classification for 8inch cruisers would make more sense in the frame of reference of the game RTW and how it currently treats "CL's". Currently in game "CL's" cover everything from screening dutiey over fleet scout duties to light task force main body duties, with a statistic emphasis on the "higher" end of the duty spectrum, where the historic "treaty" 8inch CA had its usage. I would really prefer to have the option to produce dedicated DL's and light "escort/AA" CL's in RTW2, but as is, from ca. 1916 onwards, the historic 7/8inch CA (with CL genes by way of the Hawkins and Furutaka classes) is a better fit for how the RTW game assigns "CL's" to scenarios. One thing this mod with a 20kton limit for CL's needs is enabling up to 8inch guns for those CL's. This would mean that the end evolution of the CL is the modern CA, while the "reborn" CA will be the Alaska equivalents they most times turn out to be. Interesting concept, I suppose you'd then re-class the 8" gunned heavy cruisers as CL which... isn't too unreasonable it seems.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 13:04:13 GMT -6
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Post by tbr on Jan 6, 2018 13:44:32 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 26, 2018 10:53:59 GMT -6
The "CL" classification for 8inch cruisers would make more sense in the frame of reference of the game RTW and how it currently treats "CL's". Currently in game "CL's" cover everything from screening dutiey over fleet scout duties to light task force main body duties, with a statistic emphasis on the "higher" end of the duty spectrum, where the historic "treaty" 8inch CA had its usage. I would really prefer to have the option to produce dedicated DL's and light "escort/AA" CL's in RTW2, but as is, from ca. 1916 onwards, the historic 7/8inch CA (with CL genes by way of the Hawkins and Furutaka classes) is a better fit for how the RTW game assigns "CL's" to scenarios. Interesting concept, I suppose you'd then re-class the 8" gunned heavy cruisers as CL which... isn't too unreasonable it seems. Just a Note: There were a series of scout cruisers designed in 1917, as part of the scout cruiser study that were about 5750 tons, equipped with two-8 inch guns and four 5-inch guns. There was another set that were the preliminary designs for the Pensacola's that had a main battery of 8-inch guns in one triple turret and two twin turrets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 0:22:57 GMT -6
RTW mod 5 -Fire control changes: Advanced director gives +30 hit mod @18000yds+, +20 hit mod below. (Default game +20 @12000+, +10 below); Adds one level of fire control research, "Lightweight director" which enables DDs to equip best directors; As a result of 1 more research level, end game "tech level" is 30 instead of 20. Which makes gunnery even more deadly. -Reworked BB/BC distinction a bit. Default game distinction: before 1912, BC is speed 24kts+, or speed 22kts+ and belt 6in-. At 1912+ it is speed 25kts+. At 1916+ it is speed 31kts+, or speed 27kts+ and belt 12in-. Last distinction changed to at 1925+, and belt 18in-. (18in roughly end game 16" pen at 18000yds) -CL has no displacement limit or belt thickness limit. CA has no belt thickness limit. CL-CA-BC distinction depends only on main gun caliber. -Hull/Engine/Armor weight saving and damage control research added 2 more levels to 21 levels. -Last torpedo tech is 7000yds@40kts/14000yds@30kts (default game 5000@38/18000@27) -A ship designed in 1900 will weigh the same in 1925 if no new weight saving tech is researched. -Secondary ammo changed to 200 RPG (default game 150) -Bad sea state ship speed limit increased by 10 to 12 kts. -Design ship sec/ter max gun count upped to 100 -Fixed "Scouting force" research tied to "Advanced signalling" research by giving it a separate ID 1311. -Sight range changes tidied up, same as the SAI mod ranges in bad weather and night will stay constant at 15000yds. -Design ship 500ton increment button works above 69500ton. -Dock size manual build changed to 2000ton pre-1925, and 500ton post 1925. -Land invasion message "trying to capture XXX from Nation" changed to " for Nation" to clear my confusion. -AI ship design templates overhauled, added a few late game CA and heavy CL designs, fixed the gangut model. edit 2018/02/26 - Allows rebuilding CLs using quad turrets to whatever gun caliber RTW Mod 5
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Post by DrunkSailor on Feb 21, 2018 14:38:24 GMT -6
Can you incorporate the 8" main guns CL's into the Mod 5 exe? And also if possible to allow 11" main guns in CA's? As an example I name the Deutschland class cruisers (Deutschland renamed to Lützow - Admiral Graf Spee - Admiral Sheer) that all had 2x3 11" main batteries.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 1:38:24 GMT -6
Can you incorporate the 8" main guns CL's into the Mod 5 exe? And also if possible to allow 11" main guns in CA's? As an example I name the Deutschland class cruisers (Deutschland renamed to Lützow - Admiral Graf Spee - Admiral Sheer) that all had 2x3 11" main batteries. sure, wanted to do that but ran outta time, gimme some will be up later.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 11:43:15 GMT -6
up RTW_Mod_5_8inCL_11inCAAI ship design templates are adjusted to up CL gun caliber to 8", with 5"/6"/7" mixed in. No 11" CA templates for AI but player can build it. *Note that the AI ship design logic is unable to compensate for CL tech at times. So in slow research games the AI would build outta spec, multi-gun superimposed turret CLs while player is still stuck on single turrets. It is the same for 6" gun CLs but more of a prob for 8" ships as they're costlier - might lose prestige if sunk. The "uber" CL templates (CL4X3/CL4X4/CL4X5 in Data\IDes) can be deleted if dislike them. I use them myself for better end game challenge. Alternatively updated RTW Mod 5 to allow rebuilding CLs with quad turrets to whatever gun caliber. So can build something like this: And refit it to this Link updated on 1st post.
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Post by DrunkSailor on Feb 25, 2018 15:35:49 GMT -6
Thank you skwabie
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 18:01:19 GMT -6
Hi there. Thanks for your amazing work, I cant imagine RTW now without 18+ armor mod. I have a question. What is your farthest BB/BC combat range in 1905-1918 and 1918-1950? I mean the distance you choose to fight enemy BB/BC when you have same or larger calibre main guns and kind of similar armor. Somehow, even with improved director and +1 quality guns and "good" crews, shooting at more than 11 000 yards is horribly inefficient. For example in fleet battle when there are 2 battle lines on each side, 7 capital ships vs 8 capital ships (for example) they keep pounding each other and sometimes there is 1 main gun hit (by whole fleet, not by each ship), but most shells (like 99%) ends in water. I know that shelling enemy ships at 20 miles is just a matter of radar or luck, but this is just 11k yards, and not 1vs1 but 7vs8. Most battles are won by the fleet that tends to load more shells for each gun, because the other fleet will most probably run out of main ammo during battle.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 1:04:50 GMT -6
Hi there. Thanks for your amazing work, I cant imagine RTW now without 18+ armor mod. I have a question. What is your farthest BB/BC combat range in 1905-1918 and 1918-1950? I mean the distance you choose to fight enemy BB/BC when you have same or larger calibre main guns and kind of similar armor. Somehow, even with improved director and +1 quality guns and "good" crews, shooting at more than 11 000 yards is horribly inefficient. For example in fleet battle when there are 2 battle lines on each side, 7 capital ships vs 8 capital ships (for example) they keep pounding each other and sometimes there is 1 main gun hit (by whole fleet, not by each ship), but most shells (like 99%) ends in water. I know that shelling enemy ships at 20 miles is just a matter of radar or luck, but this is just 11k yards, and not 1vs1 but 7vs8. Most battles are won by the fleet that tends to load more shells for each gun, because the other fleet will most probably run out of main ammo during battle. I think it's likely how naval battles are in the old dayz where it mostly takes a long time! I'm sure the forums usual dwellers are more qualified to explain the historical aspects of it aka naval gunnery is a complex and detailed process... In game terms stern chases are especially inefficient so I usually split my forces in 2 when possible and try to sandwich the enemy from 2 sides, to keep him from running away which would completely foil any gunnery. The best shooting position I find is putting the target over the shoulder but still broadside on, it helps greatly when at battle start to whittle down the enemy, or facing a superior enemy. Flotilla attacks are great at finishing off crippled ships, they're slow and can't evade torpedoes well. But all in all it is indeed slower paced, in game terms this does require one to have some patience... There're times when I can't be bothered and it usually ends up making mistakes and taking losses so patience does reward!
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Post by williammiller on May 19, 2018 10:42:32 GMT -6
Remember that RTW only includes technology up to ~1925, so stuff like radar-assisted gunnery and other advances will be included in RTW2. The hit rates at long ranges with those sort of techs will improve significantly, of course.
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Post by rimbecano on May 19, 2018 13:23:38 GMT -6
Hi there. Thanks for your amazing work, I cant imagine RTW now without 18+ armor mod. I have a question. What is your farthest BB/BC combat range in 1905-1918 and 1918-1950? I mean the distance you choose to fight enemy BB/BC when you have same or larger calibre main guns and kind of similar armor. Somehow, even with improved director and +1 quality guns and "good" crews, shooting at more than 11 000 yards is horribly inefficient. For example in fleet battle when there are 2 battle lines on each side, 7 capital ships vs 8 capital ships (for example) they keep pounding each other and sometimes there is 1 main gun hit (by whole fleet, not by each ship), but most shells (like 99%) ends in water. I know that shelling enemy ships at 20 miles is just a matter of radar or luck, but this is just 11k yards, and not 1vs1 but 7vs8. Most battles are won by the fleet that tends to load more shells for each gun, because the other fleet will most probably run out of main ammo during battle. In the late game, I tend to engage at as long a range as practicable. The AI tends to go for light decks, so I'll hang out at 20kyd, visibility permitting, and pound 16"-18" shells through his decks. Accuracy isn't great, but my shells penetrate and his don't. And the way AI BCs tend to be built, you often don't need many hits to trigger a magazine explosion.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 18:01:58 GMT -6
I'd actually redid/added many late game AI ship templates that have pretty good decks... But 20k is a good enough figure, whatever range that touches the edge of the torpedo ring generally is the preferred engagement range for me personally that is:p 16"+ shells should still go thru belts and turrets more often than not.
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