bugs? submarines / flotilla attacks

[mlenoe]

Hi - I've been playing the NWS games now for almost two years and find them really great. But today I have a couple of questions about what may or not be bugs.

First, I've been playing the Baltic campaign game for a month or so, and the only losses I have seen caused by submarines have been cases where one sub torpedoed another. Is this right?  My memory from Janes Fighting Ships 1919 (which listed all WWII naval losses) is that most of the losses in the Baltic were caused by subs (especially the British E-class) or mines (and I'm not seeing very many losses due to mines in the campaign game either).

Second, in playing the RJ War game and using the various battle generators that come with it, I have yet to be able to launch a flotilla attack.  When I press the button for one, nothing happens. Is the idea that flotilla attacks weren't part of tactics at this time, or is this a potential bug?

Again, great games!

mlenoe

[randomizer]

In my last Baltic campaign as Russia, U-Boats sank five of my ships (plus some merchants) and British subs sank three German warships. The short-ranged Russian boats had no success and two were lost so I do not think that the submarine game is bugged but it was toned down because people complained in earilier iterations of the game when submarines were too omnipresent and effective. SAI is about surface gunnery combat but the historical reality was that the submarine dominated the Baltic and North Sea theatres, something that many Players did not particularly enjoy.

The Flotilla Attack function certainly does work but it is not an instant panacea, particularly in the pre-dreadnought era. Early torpedo boats could not successfully attack a battle line in daylight and for the most part warship secondary and (to a lesser extent) tertiary batteries could keep torpedo boats at bay. Your AI torpedo boat captains know this and so will not throw themselves recklessly into suicidal charges in an attempt to get within the <1000 yard effective range of their principle weapons. Try at night or in poor visibility or when the enemy has been disrupted and had dropped some cripples and you should see better results. Flotilla attacks take time to develop largely because in most cases as the attacker/defender geometry favours the defender.

During the Russo-Japanese War, torpedo craft were not used as screening forces as they lacked the gun power to fight each other. The advent of the Torpedo Boat Destroyer, an RN innovation soon adopted by Russia and later Japan started the trend towards effective screening units but that is not the way that they were utilized for the most part in 1904-05. Togo's flotillas during the Battle of August 10 were almost useless for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was that the long-rang gun duel left them badly out of position when the Russians turned back to Port Arthur. At Tsushima they were only effective at night and against cripples and the Russian boats with their generally heavier guns armament proved useless on the defensive and failed to launch any effective torpedo attacks against a Japanese force that remained organized.

Trying to use torpedo craft in the pre-dreadnought period as you would in WW1 will inevitably lead to frustrations and problems as the boats are not capable or designed for the roles of screening, fleet defence and daylight torpedo attacks against an unbroken enemy. SAI-RJW reflects these realities. Torpedo craft in the pre-dreadnought period represented a potential force-multiplier against a defeated enemy to be used in particular advantageous situations and poor visibility. They had no real defensive function or had the ability to attack an unbroken enemy in daylight until their displacement reached >800 tons with multiple 100mm (4") guns fitted and this did not happen until well into the dreadnought era.

[mlenoe]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Christopher. Very helpful. Best, ML