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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 11:45:19 GMT -6
Well, I just thought I would start a thread on this forum for the old guys..... that specifically means me. So, let's get started. First, I've been playing games on computers since the TRS-80 and TI-99..... think about that will ya. My attitude is they are games, entertainment, a break from reality. My primary problem is that I don't research them and focus on them. But I will probably change that..... maybe. So, I will post questions and observations frequently. I, for some unknown reason, love to play the Japanese... and I generally don't lose. I have no idea why but it its true. I love the surprise attacks but I've found that you have to be careful and not stay around too long. I figured out something this morning. I am rebuilding ships more often especially when I notice a new research element such as swiveling multiple centerline torpedo tubes. I've begun to immediately take tin cans and light cruisers, rebuild the engines, install the new centerline torpedo tubes and bulge them if that is available. I am also being much more careful about speed since if I get to close to the limit, they don't test well once completed. I am also just build one new design such as 900 ton destroyers and the like. I am also scrapping old coastal submarines on a one for one basis with medium range subs and minelayers. Ok, that's it for now. I am also limiting myself to one game a day. I am having fun with the game but will admit, that even though I have defeated the British in wars, I try to stay away from it with them. I will try to return to AH and Italy, that is always fun. I have witnessed live wargames in NORAD, they were interesting. Over and Out.
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Post by Airy W on Aug 30, 2017 14:14:49 GMT -6
What sort of speeds are you starting with?
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 15:13:11 GMT -6
OK- Installment #1
I got stupid and am now playing the Russians. Now, Russia is at the center of the Eurasian continent with its only three accesses to major oceans is thru Murmansk, the Baltic through the Skagerrak and Kattegat and the Dardanelles. Also there is Port Arthur and Vladivostok which is iced over six months of the year. Needless to say, she isn't really a maritime power. So, how in all creation did I get into a war with the French. From Riga in the Gulf of Riga, it is almost 2000 miles to the Dover Straits and Calais and farther to Le Havre. So, why would I send my ships all the way there. The computer has me even going three times to the Bay of Biscay which is over 2580 miles one way if you take the round about way via the New Hebrides. By the time I get to any of those locations, I already half empty of coal. If I do get into a battle... and the French love Fleet engagements... I can't use full speed or I will be a sail boat.
Now, I still haven't engaged them in the Far East, which would make much more sense. In fact, the French have nothing that the Russians want. The Russian's can make their own wine or just use potatoes which they grown in abundance for Vodka. They have more oil and coal plus basic natural resources and farm land than France and Germany combined. Since the Napoleonic era, France and Russia have concluded more alliances against their common enemy the Germans.
So, this was makes absolutely no geostrategic sense to me and I could not stop the computer from pushing me into it. Anyway, I have a strategy of as soon as my fleet is deployed, I go into overdrive and head back to the Skagerrak and home. This works very well because for some reason the crazy French chase me and then I turn on their light cruisers and boom, they get sunk. He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 15:15:25 GMT -6
What sort of speeds are you starting with? If I let the game build my fleet, its starts me out at around 18 knots for anything but tin cans. This is another reason I try to rebuild because I remove torpedo tubes from heavy cruisers, battleships and the like. This lightens them and I also remove tertiary guns. I can usually get about two to three more knots of speed. I try to keep the fleets at a similar speeds because the speed of the fleet goes at the speed of the slowest ship.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Aug 30, 2017 16:17:25 GMT -6
I enjoy starting with computer designs for my legacy fleet, there is more of a "let's see what we got at Christmas" feel when I examine my legacy fleet for the first time. There can be moments of elation and moments of "ewww...". Rather more fun to me. :]
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 17:26:07 GMT -6
I enjoy starting with computer designs for my legacy fleet, there is more of a "let's see what we got at Christmas" feel when I examine my legacy fleet for the first time. There can be moments of elation and moments of "ewww...". Rather more fun to me. :] I do the same, always curious why the AI builds cramped ships.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 17:29:50 GMT -6
Installment #2
Well, we had numerous battles, were even with the French in points, however, the economic deprivation in Russia was too much and there was an October Revolution and the Czar was summarily disposed of along with some of his cronies. We asked for peace, but it was harsh, lost two ships, and some territory. Afterwards the new government had trouble maintaining budgets and the Navy was no different. I resigned, and went to the Black Sea and bought a hotel where I now party hardy with my friends. Lotsa Vodka and other.... things. We have met the enemy..... and he was us. Oh by the way, there was a tremendous light in the sky to the east near Tunguska. Some say it was a meteorite strike. Curious.
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Post by fredsanford on Aug 30, 2017 17:52:18 GMT -6
Were you blockaded? Your earlier comment about "the French love fleet battles" and the fact that you went down by revolution makes me wonder if you didn't invest enough in your battle fleet. The game will have lots of fleet battles if the AI thinks the odds are in its favor.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 18:07:33 GMT -6
Were you blockaded? Your earlier comment about "the French love fleet battles" and the fact that you went down by revolution makes me wonder if you didn't invest enough in your battle fleet. The game will have lots of fleet battles if the AI thinks the odds are in its favor. Yes I was blockaded and that is easy in the game against the Russians. I had at least ten armored cruisers and four heavy cruisers, with at least 10 light cruisers and 20 destroyers and over 15 coastal submarines. It was not a small fleet. However, they can produce all their own food especially from the Ukraine and Byelorussia, oil from Kazakhastan, coal from the Donetz basin plus the Trans-Siberian Railroad to the east with access to China, Mongolia etc. I really don't think blockading Russia can be effective. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the people of the nation becoming tired of the war. This is a naval game, not a land based game. But against France I just don't see how France could reach Russia without trampling on the Kaiser's Germany. I don't think that would work either, so I have difficulty in believing that Russia can be and was ever, blockaded. I have studied the Soviet Union in my senior studies in college. But this is just my opinion. I invested a lot in my fleet, building better tin cans, and upgrading whenever possible and building submarines when available.
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Post by bcoopactual on Aug 30, 2017 18:26:48 GMT -6
If I recall, the Ottoman empire blocking access to the Med out of the Black Sea eliminated Russia'a ability to export their grain which meant they had no income of hard currency and it was crippling to the Government. I'm no expert on economics but it seemed from that experience that just being self sufficient in food and oil or other natural resources doesn't make a nation immune from blockades although it would certainly seem to me to make a nation more resistant. I could be wrong though, it's not something I've read a lot about.
Obviously that's the Black Sea/Med (although realistically you wouldn't need more than a couple of ships sitting south of the Dardanelles in international waters to accomplish the same thing the Ottoman's did) and in game you only have to blockade the Baltic so yeah that doesn't make much sense but the blockade mechanic is a very simplified system so I just accept it.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 18:43:45 GMT -6
If I recall, the Ottoman empire blocking access to the Med out of the Black Sea eliminated Russia'a ability to export their grain which meant they had no income of hard currency and it was crippling to the Government. I'm no expert on economics but it seemed from that experience that just being self sufficient in food and oil or other natural resources doesn't make a nation immune from blockades although it would certainly seem to me to make a nation more resistant. I could be wrong though, it's not something I've read a lot about. Obviously that's the Black Sea/Med (although realistically you wouldn't need more than a couple of ships sitting south of the Dardanelles in international waters to accomplish the same thing the Ottoman's did) and in game you only have to blockade the Baltic so yeah that doesn't make much sense but the blockade mechanic is a very simplified system so I just accept it. If you are referring to the blockade during WW1, the Russian grain exports did get blockaded and that severely hindered Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire. The last had a locust plague that swept through Syria and Palestine in 1915 and everything from veggies to animal fodder, grain and potatoes was in short supply. The Russians, civilians, Naval and Army personnel were very well fed. The outcomes of wars are not always determined by material items. The Russians government had a revolt before the war. I am not disagreeing with you, just stating that the collapse of the Czarist regime was more political and sociological, than material. The war was the catalyst for the revolt and demise of the Czarist regime. It had been coming along for many years. I don't think the game should try to change any of this, just my opinion that a blockade against Russia will not win a war with her. Especially with France.
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Post by Airy W on Aug 30, 2017 19:23:21 GMT -6
I don't think the game should try to change any of this, just my opinion that a blockade against Russia will not win a war with her. Especially with France. France blockading Russia would be very ironic, since the French had invested so heavily in the Russian economy. The foreign minister of German must be a genius. A French blockade against Russia would probably win the war because the Russian government was just as dependent on revenues from commodity exports back then as it is now. Almost all of that trade went through the baltic sea. With a French blockade in place, the government suddenly has a massive deficit and is bleeding gold. Look at what happened to the economies of Iraq, Iran and Russia when sanctions cut them off from export markets. Even though these countries were mostly self sufficient, the welfare of the people suffered as the foreign trade that gave value to their currency dried up. The government can keep things going for a while by running large deficits but eventually the savings are depleted. Then you have soldiers who aren't getting paid and rural peasants who aren't getting anything worthwhile from the cities in exchange for their crops. The people are going to be angry. And then all of this is being fought over a phony war? There are no great victories to inspire the people and no defeats to motivate them to rally around the flag, just a Czar who can't keep the soldiers happy or the workers fed. I'd rather sit on the throne of Damocles.
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Post by fredsanford on Aug 30, 2017 19:31:55 GMT -6
Were you blockaded? Your earlier comment about "the French love fleet battles" and the fact that you went down by revolution makes me wonder if you didn't invest enough in your battle fleet. The game will have lots of fleet battles if the AI thinks the odds are in its favor. Yes I was blockaded and that is easy in the game against the Russians. I had at least ten armored cruisers and four heavy cruisers, with at least 10 light cruisers and 20 destroyers and over 15 coastal submarines. It was not a small fleet. However, they can produce all their own food especially from the Ukraine and Byelorussia, oil from Kazakhastan, coal from the Donetz basin plus the Trans-Siberian Railroad to the east with access to China, Mongolia etc. I really don't think blockading Russia can be effective. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the people of the nation becoming tired of the war. This is a naval game, not a land based game. But against France I just don't see how France could reach Russia without trampling on the Kaiser's Germany. I don't think that would work either, so I have difficulty in believing that Russia can be and was ever, blockaded. I have studied the Soviet Union in my senior studies in college. But this is just my opinion. I invested a lot in my fleet, building better tin cans, and upgrading whenever possible and building submarines when available. Game mechanics =/= reality. You need battleships to provide the bulk tonnage in order to prevent blockade in the game.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 19:50:44 GMT -6
Installment #3. I've started a new game as Austria-Hungary. My first order of business was to scrap two ships being built. I then checked my armored cruisers and four of them are cramped. They will have to be replaced so I am putting them in mothballs. That' s all of my armored cruisers, to me they are not much good but I may use them as ASW/coastal patrols ships.
Many of my destroyers are cramped and I am now replacing them with new versions with more speed. I will then scrap them. I have also built about ten minesweepers for coastal patrols. I examining the possibility of using just older 500 ton destroyers that are cramped for that mission. It's been assigned to my staff for study.
My staff has recommended now that the new destroyers are in the fleet that we replace the cramped and short range armored cruisers with a new design. That has been approved by the design board and submitted to the Kaiser. We are now building the new ship.
I scrapped some new 500 tonners and designed some 600 tonners. This is a vast improvement and the Kaiser was happy. Big darn deal..... Ok, well France and AH are coming to an understanding and all is well.... until another change in government brings in the Hawks. Democracy, Shh. Ok, I've just ordered our first submarine. Now we're for it.
This is wonderful news. We now have an alliance with the German Kaiser. Now we can take on France with the Germans coming at them from behind. Somehow, I am now at war with Great Britain. My first actual battle was a major victory. I lost one transport, he lost light cruiser. Well, now I am at war with Italy. Time to rest. Bye
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 30, 2017 19:51:15 GMT -6
Yes I was blockaded and that is easy in the game against the Russians. I had at least ten armored cruisers and four heavy cruisers, with at least 10 light cruisers and 20 destroyers and over 15 coastal submarines. It was not a small fleet. However, they can produce all their own food especially from the Ukraine and Byelorussia, oil from Kazakhastan, coal from the Donetz basin plus the Trans-Siberian Railroad to the east with access to China, Mongolia etc. I really don't think blockading Russia can be effective. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility of the people of the nation becoming tired of the war. This is a naval game, not a land based game. But against France I just don't see how France could reach Russia without trampling on the Kaiser's Germany. I don't think that would work either, so I have difficulty in believing that Russia can be and was ever, blockaded. I have studied the Soviet Union in my senior studies in college. But this is just my opinion. I invested a lot in my fleet, building better tin cans, and upgrading whenever possible and building submarines when available. Game mechanics =/= reality. You need battleships to provide the bulk tonnage in order to prevent blockade in the game. I will keep that in mind. Thanks.
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