|
Post by archelaos on Sept 21, 2017 13:03:17 GMT -6
Cost of my 1903 battleship: 62 million Cost of my 1905 cruiser with 27 knot speed and a higher ROF: 46 million Cost 1903 BC: 123 million Cost of replacing obsolete guns on 1903 BC: 13 million So yeah, congrats on saving yourself the cost of a 46 million dollar cruiser. All you needed to do was spend 74 million dollars more to do it. Oh and that's not even getting into the extra maintenance you incurred, about 300k a month for 5 years... Huh, another 18 million. You know what they say. 18 million here, 18 million there, pretty soon you are talking real money. While in general I agree with you that 2 turret BCs are not worth the cost, I don't understand how you can spend 123mln on single ship laid down in 1903. My first pair of BCs (laid down 1905-6, arriving 1908-9 usually) armed with 3x2 12in cost around 65mln a piece, and they totally dominate the seas when they arrive. They have 2 guns less on broadside than usual dreadnought, but as they are as armoured as any AI ship, they can stand in line if needed. They will also mop the floor with any cruiser in existence, even late game monsters . What's more, they will also defeat any Bs in service in 1-1 fight, so if I am in war 1908-14 they will quickly reach legendary status. And I consider them more important than early dreads ever since I defeated 15 ship French battleline with a pair of such boats in one of my Austrian games (sinking one and heavily damaging another B, with minimal damage to my ships). In other game my first BC (though this time I was super lucky having access to 13in Q0 guns) sank a pair Bs, and no less that 6 cruisers in first war she took part, basically winning the war for me. Their speed advantage (even if they have only 25-26kts) allow them to run circles around any other ship class in those early days, giving me massive advantage in battles.
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Sept 21, 2017 13:21:28 GMT -6
While in general I agree with you that 2 turret BCs are not worth the cost, I don't understand how you can spend 123mln on single ship laid down in 1903. You can't; the dockyard isn't big enough. That's how much it would cost if it were physically possible to make a BC that has the functionality of both ships.
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Sept 21, 2017 14:19:12 GMT -6
That is, in general, where the advantage of a well-built battlecruiser lies whatever the era: it functions both as an element of the battle line and as a cruiser hunter, saving you the coat of building both. Cost of my 1903 battleship: 62 million Cost of a 1903 CA with 26 knot speed: 48 million Cost of building my 1903 battleship as a 26 knot BC: 123 million, if it were possible to build without sacrificing weapons or armor, which it is not So either you are saving negative 10 million dollars, or you are getting a ship which will not serve on the battle line as well 26 knots for a BC in 1903 is absurd. The Invincible class, built later and on a somewhat larger tonnage, were only designed for 25, though they did exceed 26 on trials. The Tsukuba class itself, also built later, only made 20.5, which is a fairly typical speed for cruisers of the period both IRL and in-game (although with the Tsukuba's armament it would qualify as a B in game). My (super)Tsukubas are generally built for about 24 knots, which is generally sufficient well into the game.
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Sept 21, 2017 15:21:49 GMT -6
26 knots for a BC in 1903 is absurd. I agree. The Tsukuba class itself, also built later, only made 20.5, which is a fairly typical speed for cruisers of the period both IRL and in-game Well she was on the slow side, other CAs laid down in 1905 did go as fast as 23. Of course they didn't have the 12 inch guns. My impression is that the game makes pre-dread cruisers a little easier to speed up then they should be. I wouldn't lay down a 21 knot ship in 1905.
|
|
|
Post by archelaos on Sept 21, 2017 16:00:30 GMT -6
The Tsukuba class itself, also built later, only made 20.5, which is a fairly typical speed for cruisers of the period both IRL and in-game Well she was on the slow side, other CAs laid down in 1905 did go as fast as 23. Of course they didn't have the 12 inch guns. My impression is that the game makes pre-dread cruisers a little easier to speed up then they should be. I wouldn't lay down a 21 knot ship in 1905. I agree - springsharp usually returns impossibly long machinery spaces when I try to sim my early CAs from RTW. After all, in 1900 fast (22-23kts) CAs usually carried only 2x1 main battery at the extreme tips of the ship, while ships with 2x2 main were mostly slow - 19-20 kts
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Sept 21, 2017 16:25:38 GMT -6
Well she was on the slow side, other CAs laid down in 1905 did go as fast as 23. Of course they didn't have the 12 inch guns. My impression is that the game makes pre-dread cruisers a little easier to speed up then they should be. I wouldn't lay down a 21 knot ship in 1905. I agree - springsharp usually returns impossibly long machinery spaces when I try to sim my early CAs from RTW. After all, in 1900 fast (22-23kts) CAs usually carried only 2x1 main battery at the extreme tips of the ship, while ships with 2x2 main were mostly slow - 19-20 kts Be careful with Springsharp in the area of Machinery. It is generally lower in the area of SHP than the real vessels. Example is KMS Bismarck had over 150,000 SHP horsepower as tested during her trial runs, her speed was 30.67 KTS. In the Springsharp design, she is provided with 137,994 SHP with a speed of 28.67 KTS. Now, can I get here to 30.67 KTS in SpringSharp? I have and the resultant engine power is now 185,050 SHP. which is way to much power, she could not get that much power out of her engines. So, you have to keep this problem in mind.
|
|
|
Post by JagdFlanker on Sept 21, 2017 18:34:03 GMT -6
correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't level 2 ship design also allow you secondary dual turrets above 7"? that can be used to "not-insignificantly" increase your firepower lol
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Sept 21, 2017 20:00:57 GMT -6
The Tsukuba class itself, also built later, only made 20.5, which is a fairly typical speed for cruisers of the period both IRL and in-game Well she was on the slow side, other CAs laid down in 1905 did go as fast as 23. Of course they didn't have the 12 inch guns. My impression is that the game makes pre-dread cruisers a little easier to speed up then they should be. I wouldn't lay down a 21 knot ship in 1905. I have the same impression, and no, I wouldn't lay down a 21 knot ship in 1905 either.
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Sept 21, 2017 20:03:13 GMT -6
correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't level 2 ship design also allow you secondary dual turrets above 7"? that can be used to "not-insignificantly" increase your firepower lol Level two ship design just means you have two ship design techs, but your first two ship design techs won't necessarily be the same each game.
|
|
|
Post by Airy W on Sept 22, 2017 7:41:44 GMT -6
correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't level 2 ship design also allow you secondary dual turrets above 7"? that can be used to "not-insignificantly" increase your firepower lol Your double turrets are saving you about 50 tons compared to casemates. The techn has increased your firepower by one unshielded six inch wing gun with ammo. Not by one pair mind you, by a single gun.
|
|