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Post by Airy W on Nov 21, 2017 19:09:41 GMT -6
Fighting a major power to a draw is quite the accomplishment!
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Nov 21, 2017 20:27:36 GMT -6
Both of the above seconded!
Are all 4 of your "S" cruisers "Saint-" something-or-other, or just named after 4 folks with S first names?
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 22, 2017 12:32:21 GMT -6
Names after Saints, yes. I don't recall if St. Peter or St. John ever named a 'modern' navy ship but Raphael and Gabriel (named for the archangels, we just slap the 'São' on it), composed a class of two cruisers in the beginning of the 20th Century, Raphael running around in my home city, Vila do Conde.
I think all four were included in the original shipname file.
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 23, 2017 14:05:54 GMT -6
Right, it's Thursday. time for a new chapter, going from 1904 to 1906. Not really much to say, after the silliness of the war against Germany...
So... I don't have a lot of monthly income available. Right now, I have my minesweepers on a blank rebuild (to avoid getting them outdated) and a cruiser coming out in 6 months, as long as there aren't any delays. This, coupled with the budget cut that comes with the end of the war with Germany, means all my budget is tied up with this handful of ships. I have quite a bit of money stashed away, so I spend a bit of it in bigger docks and some base upgrades. After all, I don't want the assholes in the government to suck my funds off and spend it in parts unknown. Excellent! I had around 50k in my monthly balance, it got up to 243k. Pretty nice! Bottom option reduces tensions and raises prestige. I'm not hurting for funds, so let's go with that. A couple of months pass, and my minesweepers finish their rebuilds, only to be sent to the reserve fleet. Meanwhile, I got a pretty nice surprise! I can work on a new DD now, and hopefully send some of my current fleetboats to help their colonial brethren. The Coura-class is basically a slightly bigger Lima with an extra gun and normal engines, instead of speed-tuned ones. Still not much in terms of torpedoes, but I'm not expecting them to be willing to fire them, and more guns mean more potential holes per minute. I do get a -10 to my ROF due to having too many guns, but I'm not too worried about it. Going to dig into my pockets to build four of them for now. Of course, once that cruiser is ready I'll be back to a positive balance, so I'm not that worried. And unexpected advances in hull construction, unlocking Improved riveting techniques. I'm sure a lot of people were pinned down by the news. And if they weren't... well, guess what? Unexpected advances in AP Projectiles, and Hardened AP penetrator unlocked. It's a deeper feeling! Spain, behave. Bottom option, I can take the tension raise. My cruiser is finally ready, and my tech agreement with the US leads to developments in Torpedoes, unlocking Improved hydrostatic valve. Sadly, they also report that they cannot into 900t destroyers. Bummer. Sorry, but the cruisers you have, while interesting, don't really impress me. My fleet cruisers are faster, and the half inch advantage they have in their armour belts could be easily matched if I made a repeat class, taking advantage of the tech improvements (not to mention that their recent cruisers are around 3200t). Bottom option, gaining 1 Prestige and raising tensions with Spain to level 2.
"If they were doing their jobs instead of munching pasta, we wouldn't see any shameful displays like this one!" said an irate admiral, eliciting angry mutterings from a certain group of people with their mouths full of spaghetti.
Tensions with Italy raise to 4. Also, advances in gun manufacture thanks to the tech agreement with the USA. Oh, and Ireland is rebelling. As usual. Next month, another advance courtesy of the tech agreement shows up, and this time it unlocks the Heavy secondary battery. I don't find a lot of use for it, since I don't pack heavy secondaries, but it's nice to take another little step forward. Next month, more advances in ship design, but no new tech. There's also the news of a dead end on Lyddite bursting charges. I want to avoid a war, but extra Prestige and a bigger budget would be perfect. I can always run damage control in tensions with Italy from now on, too. Their navy has some battleships in the order of the 15k tons, but their cruiser forces are smaller, their armoured cruisers have 10 inch guns in single turrets in 8k tons of displacement, and they're the biggest vessels in their navy that aren't battleships. Tensions with Italy on level 6. Unexpected advances in damage control, but no tech unlocked. Get out of my boats, Commies. I didn't take risks to have some more budget for you to start slashing it again. Also, unexpected advances in explosive shells, but no prize.4 Since Italy wants to nip at my ankles, I'll sketch up an armoured cruiser design. It's kinda fat, I know. I didn't actually order it, I want to see if more technologies that it can use show up, not to mention it will take a while to build, and it costs quite a bit. This also gave me another idea. Remember when I said I didn't have a lot of use for bigger shipyards/heavy secondary batteries? I was wrong. I completely forgot I had 11 inch guns. Also, it is cheaper than the armoured cruiser! :V Again, going to hold on it for a bit, maybe some new techs will show up and improve it. Either way, come 1907, I'll order one of these designs. What do you think? Crud. Review design and reorder them later to see if I can get rid of this speed penalty. Waiting for new stuff is already turning out to be a good decision... Yup, a good decision. Accepted, of course. A couple months later, unexpected advances in armour development, but nothing to show for it. Oh, it's also time to start another base improvement spree, the government is mooching off funds again. Again, another dock expansion and bigger bases everywhere! Oh, and coastal batteries, else someone will have the bright idea of invading my possessions again. More budget pretty please. And since I'm pretty comfortable money-wise, I do that repeat of the Coura class. 2 tons of free space seem to have mysteriously appeared on the design, let's see if I can get a better batch this time. Now that I think of it, the Coura has a good thing: its actual speed is the same as my colonial destroyers. If the new improved ship is... well, actually an improvement, I can send these four ships to provide support outside my home waters right away, and with time supplement them with the Lima-class DDs, as the new ships replace them in the main fleet. Time will tell. More unexpected advances in machinery, with no new techs, and advances in Lyddite bursting charges. Looks like they managed to get their heads on straight. Next month, another 1000t for my docksize. Top is Budget+, Tension+. Bottom is Prestige+ Guess what?
The readers of the morning newspapers were in shock, as the words "STEEL INDUSTRY DEFENESTRATED!" showed up in the first page. Of course, said representatives of the steel industry were safe and sound, thanks to the pile of hay that the First Lieutenant, knowing how his superior reacted at times, ordered ahead of time.
I never noticed how more prestige led to immediate budget increases. This explains a lot. Anyway, more advances, this time in torpedo technology, with nothing to show for it yet again. And as the end of the chapter comes, the game decided to give me a last minute gift: I never understood if the middle option brought more than a smaller budget increase. It seems to suggest so, but... Anyway, I'll let the Prestige increase of the first option go away and pick the second option. It's basically free money, and I don't risk all that tension increases going straight to Italy. Oh, and there was another gift: research teams finally unlocked the Lyddite bursting charges tech. As we close the chapter, here's the sitrep:
Spain overtook me again in the budget race, but I ain't even mad. Overall, this chapter was pretty generous to me, my prestige is sitting at 24, and if things go well, building a couple of battleships might even be a thing! So, stay tuned next as I approach the point where my previous game met such an ignoble end! See you next Saturday!
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 25, 2017 9:01:30 GMT -6
Caturday is bote time. So, fasten your seatbelts, it's time for another ride!
So, how were we last chapter? Oh yes, building another spree of bases/docks. Anyway, this chapter begins with unexpected advances in explosives, or so my research teams say, as they have nothing to show for it. A very slow month, with nothing happened. March, besides the news that the CF were finally finished, brought something unwelcome... Spain's getting a bit too handsy. I'm not that interested in picking a fight with them for now, so I'll go with the middle option and hope that's enough. Hrm. Pretty ballsy of them to do something like that. At least no Prestige was lost. Also, research teams bring me news that they got the Face hardening process now. New tech, and relevant for last chapter's capital ship plans, too! They also had advances in turrets and gun mountings, but not enough to have a breakthrough. What a nice surprise, coming from Germany too! Of course I get it, I'm close to needing to refit my ships and this will be a great improvement. And as usual when we talk about tech from other countries, my eggheads bring something, namely Active mine warfare. Pretty nice, even if it isn't one of the most valuable techs at this point in time. June brings us a lot of news! Out of nowhere, the researchers come through again and do a double strike with Cockburn safety valve and Early coastal submarines! I order five of them to start with right away. It's not Christmas and I'm getting showered with presents, as right after this event I get the Power rammers technology. There were some advances in hull construction, but not enough to reap the rewards. ?!? This is some seriously bad luck. Maybe the third time is the charm? But this time, I'll only build one and see what comes out, if it's good, the other three will follow. Dammit! DAMMIT SPAIN! The only thing that prevents me from reaping the extra budget/prestige from the first option is the need to refit my forces in the near future, meaning I'll have less ships on the Med in a time where tensions are running high. Second option it is, and I need to see to those refits pronto. As I have six fleet cruisers, I'll rotate them two at a time. The colonial ones will go last, but since each refit is three months if no delays happen, it should be done pretty quickly. It's not a great gun. Still I have the cash on hand, and this purchase means one less gun that I have to research for myself. Again, not the time to escalate. Bottom option to keep things under control. Another tech offer. This kind of event becomes really important in low tech games like this one. Accepted, of course. Buy. I think my battleship plan can use this technology to save a bit more weight as well? As a matter of fact it can. Will all the weight savings, I managed to squeeze in another knot of speed. And as if my research guys read my mind, they manage to get the Quality control armour tech. ... are my intel guys on the fritz? Ugh... gave it a shot, ended up losing 1 Prestige. Should've stayed nice and quiet in my place. On the other hand, I got a hull weight-saving technology unlocked, so not everything went wrong this month. Also, the second repeat of that 600t destroyer class came out with no speed penalties. About time, if you ask me. I order three more to keep that one company. The others were quietly sent to the Central Atlantic and West Africa to reinforce the boats there. On the meanwhile, all my cruisers are now refit, my subs are complete, I started yet another base/dock improvement spree... lots of things to do during otherwise completely boring months. I also unlocked Reliable bursting charges, so AP rounds got slightly better. As usual, yes please. Even better, it is a torpedo technology. Buying techs is one thing, as I can spend the money. I'm not interested in getting money at the time, so I refuse their proposal. Also, I unlock Q0 9-inch guns, and order the construction of the Minho-class battleship, to close this chapter. As is usual in my games, here's how things go as of January 1908:
Not really happy on that Prestige point lost there, but that kind of events is a gamble anyway. Still, could have gone worse, and I finally managed to lay up a battleship, even if it will take more than two and a half years to build. Next chapter will be either tomorrow, if I'm too bored in the afternoon, or next Tuesday.
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 26, 2017 10:42:20 GMT -6
As I said, I would post today if I had nothing to do. Given that I'm bored, here you go, two more years.
... this is the first thing I got, right out of the bat. Once again, a chance for Prestige will slip away because tensions are already at a level that doesn't make me feel comfortable. Also, my spies managed to filch information on the latest Spanish battleship design. That's faster than my battleship, but I don't know if that speed would come in handy to catch up to my ship or to run away from them... other than that, a slightly lighter main battery, lighter armour... I expected more from a ship this large. There's also more unexpected advances on torpedoes. Reliable pendulum mechanism is unlocked. I'm not going to antagonize Germany. Middle option, with no effects. Also, the dreaded (O) is showing up on my destroyers, so it's time for refits. A blank refit will suffice for the fleet DDs, since there's no great breakthroughs that can be applied to destroyers that small. The colonial destroyers, on the other hand, can use some adjustments. I move the wing torpedo mounts backwards, and remove one of the central mounts. This allows me to install two guns on CDF configuration. Hopefully they're a bit more adequate for gunfights now. My spies have woken up this chapter, as I get information on an Italian battleship: It has 12 inch guns, okay... but it looks like a slow, oversized armoured cruiser to me. Of course, they have quite a few of them, and quantity has a quality of its own. It is their latest design, but it doesn't convince me as well. By now, my destroyers are coming out of their refits. My dockyards will also be complete next turn, which means another base improvement spree. I've got to sink that money somewhere, and as it is, the idea of being in the red for a couple of years to get another captial ship is stating to look quite attractive. Yay, free money! This could have showed up a bit earlier, but beggars can't be choosers. Time to send my bigger ships into the yard again, to refit fire control. I also noticed I had a bit of free space on my cruisers, so I placed four 4 inch guns in single turrets. They'll probably be removed later, but for now it's just additional protection against nosy DDs. Hmmm... sorry but no deal France. try again in a few months. Also, people seem to get really twitchy every time I sent my ships for refit, tensions are raising across the board. Seriously, does their intel suck that much? This event again. Middle option, especially with the recent increases. It's like the game wants to screw with my head. Also, scientists came with Safe fuze arming devices, an Explosive shells technology. Also, Italy is up to no good: Yup, everything is obsolete now, I'm screwed if I go to war with them... sort of. I can try to build a design to match theirs, and see how high the monthly bill is. As a consolation prize, I unlock the Basic weight control tech (Hull construction). Out of the countries with nonzero tension, France is the lowest. Just this once, and because I'm sodding tired of throwing away Prestige opportunities for the sake of low tensions, I will take the prestige choice and damn the consequences. My people also managed to understand the mystery of periscopes. How clever. Yes, of course. Scientists also report advances in fleet tactics, but no results. Middle option reduces tensions and has no prestige loss attached. Sounds like a good opportu- WHO'S THE LOSER? I'M THE LOSER! ffs game, if you're going to sodomize me, at least get some lube and a nice dinner. Since I suddenly have a lot of budget available, I build 10 subs and CB on all my possessions that are not my home base. Scientists also figure out preheater, but I'm still salty over that sodding treaty. Not even going to bother on comments on this ****. I'm starting to get saltier than codfish at this farce. No reason to allow this, especially at this time. They went central firing, they can damn well research it by themselves. Middle option is the neutral one, so I'm going with that one for now. Tensions at zero with the US, top option, if it is automatic war, at least I get read of that treaty. Tension went to three, I got prestige and some extra money, so everything all right. It seems that I lost track of time, and ended up already in February of 1910. Time to end the chapter. Top option takes some of my budget, again, but gives me prestige, so I'm cool. My coastal batteries are also done, so I'm back in the black for my monthly income.
As I said, I'm saltier than codfish right now, so I'm not going to bother with comments. Next chapter Tuesday.
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Post by Airy W on Nov 26, 2017 12:15:54 GMT -6
I think that treaty is fantastic for you. It means that nobody else will build fast battleships. So now you can make yourself a 12kTon CA which can either outrun or outfight anything on the ocean. You could actually win a war...
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 26, 2017 12:21:38 GMT -6
Yeahhhh, about that...
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Post by aeson on Nov 26, 2017 12:49:26 GMT -6
I think that treaty is fantastic for you. It means that nobody else will build fast battleships. So now you can make yourself a 12kTon CA which can either outrun or outfight anything on the ocean. You could actually win a war... I suspect that what irritates HolyDragoon most is not so much the existence of the treaty as the loss of his battleship, which was somewhere around 6 months from completion if I'm reading things correctly. You were contemplating building something comparable to that in 1905. I rather suspect you can build something comparable or superior to that on 12,000 tons now that it's 1910. If you have triple turrets, you might even be able to get something with a clear firepower advantage without needing extra turrets, though the potential reliability issues might dissuade you from doing so.
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 26, 2017 13:02:16 GMT -6
It was closer to a year, but yeah, it was already past half completion (32 months of build time total...). Also, this is a 20% game. Triple turrets are a pipe dream as this time, I don't even have three centerline turrets. That being said, I can build something like this, which is pretty resistant to 10 inch guns, as long as I keep some distance. I don't hold many hopes about surviving against larger ships, but then again, running is what I do.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 14:02:45 GMT -6
10 years:
No capital ship No war
[face palm]
You have built a whopping 44 DDs. You have spent rounds and rounds building foreign bases. You have accumulated so much money that the funds are diverted to the army this early in game.
Since economy growth is compounded over time, early war victories are especially important. Otherwise, your economy, hence budget, hence the fleet, will always stay at the tail end of the curve.
It does not matter if you can only build 2 Bs and CAs that is technologically inferior while the enemy has like 10. By picking a suitable opponent, choosing battles carefully and with superior tactics, a war is still winnable. Or you can rack up on subs and collapse the enemy in 6-12 months - Personally I consider subs being a game loophole yet a mass raider fleet could achieve a similar effect, but the point is deciding on a viable strategy.
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 26, 2017 15:59:32 GMT -6
No war? Did you miss my tryst with Germany? Because THAT is what you get with ANY country. I'm playing with the runt of the litter, and any of those can (and did, on my last playthrough), squeeze me down on sheer tonnage.
20% Game means I only got sub tech... I think it was in the chapter that got eaten. Either way, it will take time until I have a sufficient number to get results, especially with the slow increase in reliability that they're so dependent on.
Raiding, as with subs and everything that happens is a coin toss. Again, my war with germany had a cruiser interned just because they managed to thwart his raiding attempt. It happened within friendly base range on the very first turn.
The sole suitable opponent here is Spain, any other is getting into a war where you're stuck making holding actions. The Italians, which would probably be the next contender, have a 'normal' capship fleet, without the retarded <10k ton battleships. Also, since tech progresses so slowly and I play in vice-admiral mode, I can't rely on my torpedoes to carry the day. In fact, from what I've seen, my luck runs so shitty that I had battles where, despite having several DDs and CLs against one CL and one B, I had to face off the B with a colonial cruiser, which would go down in a couple of shots if I was stupid enough to go in.
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Post by pat39576 on Nov 26, 2017 22:16:00 GMT -6
I personally hate the conferences myself, had one at the start of one game and I told the game do NOT make any agreements but sound reasonable, and it still gave me one right after I had laid 2 battleships down. You can design a battleship with those restrictions, it will not have amazing firepower but it could have good armor and will fight equally armed cruisers at best. On the plus side, the AI only managed to build 1 battlecruiser and no dreadnoughts before that treaty, it is really up to you how you proceed with that kind of a treaty but a battleship is still possible if you do not see a war starting before it finishes.
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Post by Airy W on Nov 27, 2017 8:30:10 GMT -6
A 20% game will make your life much harder as a small power. It's the ebb and flow of technology that repeatedly renders the fleets of the big boys obsolete. When you build a cutting edge ship as a small power, that gives you your brief moment of parity. Repeated naval conferences will increase how common these moments are.
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Post by HolyDragoon on Nov 28, 2017 14:04:05 GMT -6
Tuesday, time for 1910 to 1912. What will happen this time, I wonder?
As it is, I'm pretty comfortable with my dock size. I'll probably find something to spend my surplus until the subs are done in 8 months. Well, actually, I still haven't ordered that 600t DD fleetboat design, so there's something to do! I also relaized a slight oversight: with the number of guns I have in those destroyers, I can redesign them for, you guessed right, CDF. It's another gun per broadside! Oh, nice. I gain absolutely nothing with these options. Top one is Tension++, middle is Tension+, bottom has no effect whatsoever. I think it isn't on the same seazone as Timor, so I go for the third option. ... and I learn that letting the enemy getting territories burns you one point, even if you don't even have possessions there, and regardless of whether the event window says 'No effect' or not. Crap. Sod off. First choice, I don't care about tension for now. As much as I wanted to pick the mid option, chances are that nothing would come from it, as it usually happens when I'm actually looking for a sodding treaty. Improved signalling is also unlocked. My destroyers also come out from their refit. Improved annealing is researched. Mid option again! What's the worse that can happen? A treaty extension? Yup. 5 more years of treaty, all for a reduction in tensions. Also, Diving Planes were researched. I wonder if it affects subs already under construction? Anyway, subs done, and I get a business proposal from the USA: Ok. My torpedoes can now blow their l-pffffffthahahahaha. I can't say this with a straight face. Well, they really want my money. Sure, I guess. While there are bigger ships, right now good enough would probably do. This is a simple CA design with enough speed to keep up with the light cruisers, all within treaty limits. With my destroyers almost completed, I can start building this one... and can't do much else on the meantime. Speed breaks your bank anytime, everytime. Ugh... I really really want to take this and see if I'm lucky, but at the same time... I don't know that well the mechanics behind this event, and there's a chance I lose Prestige in an outcome that I see too often for my liking. Ultimately, and given that there are no ships on that seazone, I give up on the idea. Next month, The Maldives start a rebellion... and said rebellion continues in the very next event, in the same month? What. Also, longitudinal frame is researched. I can take it. BRING ON THE PASTA! Dammit Britain? Don't you have a rebellion in the Maldives to look to? Raise tensions, because I'm not about to throw the point I just gained away. Ah yes, I heard about their results (or lack of them) in Africa. I supposed it's good for us to give them a hand... Read: They need that income to plug a hole in their accounting somewhere. Too bad I can't start a war and send them all to the frontline, or something. Eeeeh, only the Mondego-class uses that caliber... I can get it, if only to get this particular caliber out of the way. Also, researchers unlock the Control tops tech. Pffffthahahahahahaha. Looks like I'm not the only one getting screwed by the game. Uhhhh no. Oh nice, one of these! Bottom option to spend a little money in exchange for less tension and more Prestige, of course! Scientists are also on their way to getting 900t destroyers, but they aren't there yet. A couple of months later - at last - Three centreline turrets are researched. Was wondering when something like this would show up. No, get out. They didn't like the refusal, and their tension increased a bit, it seems. Hero, I say, HERO, just to spite the Spaniards! I was conflicted on this event, which was pretty much the last of the chapter. I don't want to sell anything, but they sold me a lot of stuff. Ultimately, I settled the issue with a coin toss, and ended up selling the tech to them. As usual, here's how stuff goes:
My shipyards fell a little behind on this chapter, but it isn't impossible to overcome, and for now, the treaty is in force. I just can't get a break on budget issues, though. Still, by now we're past the endpoint of my last try, so it's going pretty well, or at least as well as it can go. See you Thursday for the next stretch.
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