|
Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 29, 2014 18:04:11 GMT -6
This round of testing used the 2nd division from Haeju Bay on the bombardment objective. Encountered Petro class battleship and a few other ships, sailed around the point to the northern side of the peninsula, continued bombardment returned to the southern side and then departed. Final result was a marginal victory, with 50 pts.gained. Assessment: Bombardment objectives are not worth the points. I am going to deploy a battle group of one battleship division, one cruiser division and one destroyer division on a seek and destroy mission in the Yellow Sea near Dalny and Port Arthur. I am not attempting to gain a decisive victory but am on an attrition strategy.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 29, 2014 18:55:26 GMT -6
Another round of testing, deployed one BB division, one CL division and one DD division with an objective of arriving with three BB's. No brainer, easy to do. After that my cruisers and destroyers went into a gunfight with the shore batteries. I need to understand how to prevent that, keeping my support units close to the BB's. I don't like melees. I managed to get some Russian BB's to deploy and heavily damaged two of them but I lost four destroyers and they lost two. Total points was over 10,000. Minor victory for the Japanese.
Assessment: I probably should have just turned around and headed home once the objective was attained. I need to learn how to keep my support ships closer instead of charging down the guns like Balaklava. I might try deploying two BB divisions, with no support, staying farther out and seeing if I can sucker the AI into following me.
|
|
|
Post by fredsanford on Jan 30, 2014 12:47:18 GMT -6
Try changing the mission profile for the cruisers from scout to support of the B div once you approach the coast such that your B's are the first ships to sight the shore batteries. That should keep them on the disengaged side of the B's (more or less). Same for the DD's, which I assume were attached to the scout cruisers. Overall, I avoid bringing DD's close to PA in daylight. RJW DD's are fragile, short ranged, and not generally worth the bother IMO.
|
|
|
Post by dickturpin on Jan 30, 2014 14:54:17 GMT -6
Also, if you are playing in Vice Admiral mode, select the command screen for your cruisers, uncheck "AI controlled", "Role" Independent and "Formation" Line Ahead.
Assign any other cruiser divisions to the independent one "Role" Core and "Formation" Line Ahead.
Assign destroyers to the cruiser force in support or core formation.
You can then position your light forces in the location of your choosing.
Take care to keep within visual range of the flagship to avoid switching back to AI control.
On completion of the mission, reassign your light forces to their original role.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 30, 2014 16:14:11 GMT -6
To All of You, thanks for the excellent suggestions and I have already started to change how I prepare the game. I need to.... dare I say it...... RTFB. Please excuse me, I've spent all of forty years reading technical manuals, software listings, NATOPS manual etc. I am a little burned out, but I am going back to the manuals and getting the details. Please keep these suggestions coming, they are excellent and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to help. We have met the enemy.... and he is us.
Update: let me propose a question to all of you. We know from history that the three block ship missions and the bombardment missions really accomplished nothing except get the 1st Pacific Squadron to exit PA and lose a few ships, along with the Japanese. The minefield missions were similar but a little more effective. So, why select them? Why not just continue the blockade, but from a distance. There is a narrowing of the sea and Huejo Bay is near there, so the Japanese fleet could just send out reinforced patrols, let the Russians exit and attrit them in combat in the sea. Do you think this might be a better strategy?
|
|
|
Post by randomizer on Jan 30, 2014 21:15:08 GMT -6
Few blockship attempts actually accomplished anything substantive in the real-life SAW, RJW or WW1 but they remained a favourite of admirals everywhere and the record suggests Togo was a fan. That said, in the game they represent the possibility of a hefty VP reward with little risk, particularly if you can run the operation in bad weather.
My technique is:
1. Activate DD Miyako and a Transport Division from Third Fleet after making sure that Miyako is above the transports in the OOB tree.
2. Set the transports in Line Ahead with a Core Role and Miyako as lead division.
3. Activate a cover force from Combined Fleet. The aim is stealth so 3rd Division or on of the DD divisions is generally adequate.
It takes about 39-40 hours (2340-2400 turns) for the transports to reach Port Arthur from Haeju Bay anchorage at 5-knots so any Russian defensive sortie will likely have returned to port by the time the blockships arrive. Plan to trigger the Objective around midnight, which gives maximum plus-minus leeway should something happen enroute. If the covering force are just DD's they can do a last-light sweep of the approaches to PA on the evening before the blockships arrive.
Outside of visual range, manoeuvre the blockships from line ahead to line abreast by turning together onto a course that aims for the entrance to PA harbour. DD Miyako should be on a flank in echelon near maximum visibility range rather than actually abreast to keep her away from the Russian guns (I generally keep her on the eastern flank to facilitate the escape). If using Admiral difficulty, after the turn give the transport division a course order, Independent role and keep Miyako on station until the objective fires and then get her out of there at high speed.
If the Russian AI detects the operation and sorties there is an excellent chance that you will learn of it in time to determine a course of action. You should have a number of options and the OP costs will be reduced thanks to emergency activation.
If Russian patrols are encountered during the approach, engage with the covering force to draw them away from the blockships, then disengage in the dark and make for the closest Japanese port. Treating a blockship objective as a stealth operation can minimize OP expenditure while maximizing the potential for VP that can facilitate the land war. Even if they were not effective in actually blocking anything, they did serve to maintain an aggressive stance by the IJN while further emphasising something of a moral superiority over the Pacific Squadron leadership.
The above just represents one method of conducting this type of mission.
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 31, 2014 9:46:00 GMT -6
Few blockship attempts actually accomplished anything substantive in the real-life SAW, RJW or WW1 but they remained a favourite of admirals everywhere and the record suggests Togo was a fan. That said, in the game they represent the possibility of a hefty VP reward with little risk, particularly if you can run the operation in bad weather. My technique is: 1. Activate DD Miyako and a Transport Division from Third Fleet after making sure that Miyako is above the transports in the OOB tree. 2. Set the transports in Line Ahead with a Core Role and Miyako as lead division. 3. Activate a cover force from Combined Fleet. The aim is stealth so 3rd Division or on of the DD divisions is generally adequate. It takes about 39-40 hours (2340-2400 turns) for the transports to reach Port Arthur from Haeju Bay anchorage at 5-knots so any Russian defensive sortie will likely have returned to port by the time the blockships arrive. Plan to trigger the Objective around midnight, which gives maximum plus-minus leeway should something happen enroute. If the covering force are just DD's they can do a last-light sweep of the approaches to PA on the evening before the blockships arrive. Outside of visual range, manoeuvre the blockships from line ahead to line abreast by turning together onto a course that aims for the entrance to PA harbour. DD Miyako should be on a flank in echelon near maximum visibility range rather than actually abreast to keep her away from the Russian guns (I generally keep her on the eastern flank to facilitate the escape). If using Admiral difficulty, after the turn give the transport division a course order, Independent role and keep Miyako on station until the objective fires and then get her out of there at high speed. If the Russian AI detects the operation and sorties there is an excellent chance that you will learn of it in time to determine a course of action. You should have a number of options and the OP costs will be reduced thanks to emergency activation. If Russian patrols are encountered during the approach, engage with the covering force to draw them away from the blockships, then disengage in the dark and make for the closest Japanese port. Treating a blockship objective as a stealth operation can minimize OP expenditure while maximizing the potential for VP that can facilitate the land war. Even if they were not effective in actually blocking anything, they did serve to maintain an aggressive stance by the IJN while further emphasising something of a moral superiority over the Pacific Squadron leadership. The above just represents one method of conducting this type of mission. Sorry for not acknowledging this post, my wife and I were babysitting for our 8 year old granddaughter and that is a real challenge. I appreciate your time to explain all this, today I am going after this objective.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 31, 2014 11:56:34 GMT -6
I started another RJW Campaign as the Japanese and used the excellent information provided by the forum members. I activated a battleship division and a cruiser division for a bombardment mission. I changed the cruiser force to be a support group, not independent and that was successful, thanks. I focused on bombarding, not attacking the Russian battle squadron and after leaving the area, it chased me. This chase gave me an idea. Why not active the same battle group, and use it to bombard but activate the other battleship divisions and have them loiter in the area of the passage. If the enemy battle squadron sorties to chase me, I will ambush them with my other battle group, catch them in a vice and dispose of them. Nice in theory, but execution will be harder. We will see. Comments welcome. I will say again, that ships attacking forts is a useless task. I will use those missions as bait to destroy the 1st Pacific Squadron. Operationally, the enemy battle force should be my focus, not moving dirt around on the land. Unless the IJA is attacking Port Arthur, I see no useful purpose risking my valuable ships to destroy forts that can be repaired and upgraded at will. I don't think Nelson was wrong. In this and other eras up until the advent of cruise missiles, attacking fortifications is a thankless task. Ask the Marines and Army personnel who assaulted the Pacific Islands and Normandy. I believe that an objective of blockade at a distance and army support when required is better.
|
|
|
Post by randomizer on Feb 3, 2014 11:20:28 GMT -6
I would not disagree and certainly Togo left the heavy lifting at port Arthur to the Army but there are a couple of sweet spots that facilitate shelling shore targets with minimal response from the major fortifications. I use a special Third Fleet division - Chin Yen, Fuso and Sai Yen as my inshore bombardment group covered at a distance by the Combined Fleet battleships but generally only when a bombardment objective is mandatory.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 3, 2014 18:55:51 GMT -6
I just ran turn one of another RJW campaign as the Japanese. My assigned objective was to move three battleships to a point near Port Arthur. I activated the 2/1st Division along with three destroyers. Objective was attained with little difficulty, after this I was on my own. I maintained a safe distance for my BB's away from PA to entice the Russians to come out and play. I moved my destroyers in a little closer to the port. Eventually two Russian BB's came out along with one destroyer. I destroyed both BB's, the Peresviet and the Sevastopol along with the destroyer Steregushchi, with the DD Ryeelni heavily damaged along with light damage to Poltava and Petropavlosk. My losses were two destroyers mostly due to allowing them to get too close to PA. I ended up with a 65,000 point difference on the first mission, for which I am well pleased. This was the type of operation that I wanted to execute, what I term a seek and destroy mission. It's an old Vietnam era operation but It seems to work for me. I will maintain my tin cans a little farther out to await the Russian forces exit from Port Arthur and a safe distance then I will increase speed to 31 knots and run in on them, after the battleships have been able to damage their turrets and superstructure. I now have a much better idea of how to use the torpedoes. The 18 inch Japanese torpedoes had a range of about 1100 yards at 31 Knots but 3300 yards at 20 Knots. All this has to be taken into account along with attack formation and angle of attack against the opponents formation. Luck is useful also. The SCA files are available, if someone thinks they would be useful just let me know.
This type of operation was prompted by my research into the initial planning for the IJN. Togo did not believe the Russian's would come out and play from PA. He planned a simple torpedo attack but was ordered to support it with the whole Combined Fleet. This operation that I just completed seems to follow this plan, with much better results. I am certain I am not smarter than Togo, but a heck of lot luckier.
Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 3, 2014 20:40:30 GMT -6
After a very successful turn one, I went to turn two. I accepted the bombardment mission but as usual, did not attempt to complete it because it is not worth my ships. I managed, with my cruiser force to destroy five Russian destroyers with no appreciable damage. Total points was 4474 for me and -3042 for the Russians. The points spread after two turns is 38,316 for the Japanese and -34,428 for the Russians. The Russian 1st Pacific Squadron has now lost two battleships and six destroyers not to mention the damage to one battleship and several cruisers. My conops was to conduct a blockade and attrition campaign against the Russian force in PA. My assessment is that it is successful, in my judgment. It is however, still early and the war will be won or lost on the land, I cannot deceive myself, naval operations are designed to support land operations, but will not win the war. At least in reality. I am managing my ships better but more is left to learn.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2014 8:07:53 GMT -6
For turn 3 I accepted the bombardment objective since the target was Pitzuwo Harbor which is not protected like Port Arthur. I activated one battleship division and was successful. I then proceeded on my seek and destroy mission encountering three Russian cruisers but I was loosing light and lost them in the dark. At this point, my failure to activate destroyers or cruisers cost me a mine against Mikasa, however we were able to depart the area and return safely.
Lessons learned are simply that you can accept bombardment missions provided the target is not well protected however, support or screening ships are important. Just another set of eyes.
Turn 4 I conducted no operations. Points spread is now over 40,000 for the Japanese and 21,000 for the Russians. Enclosed is the current ship situation.
Attachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2014 9:11:16 GMT -6
I am at turn 9, two bombardment missions have been successful, I've destroyed another Russian destroyer with heavy damage to the Boyarin and light to the Askold. Points spread is now 50,505 to -13,767. I've moved 2/1st division to Chinampo and intend to move the destroyers along with torpedo boats to that new base to increase time at sea for them. I need to read the manual more to understand the game mechanics, tactics appear to be sound and my conops is still proceeding well. I've included campaign status as of March 6th, 1904 for all of you. I would love to hear comments and criticisms of my strategy and tactics. I am not seeing or encountering many Russian ships outside PA, but when I do they are headed for Dalny. I am now sending my battle groups to that area and moving westward from there to encounter them along the coast. Thanks for reading this. Note: The game is set for normal, not easy in case you were wondering.
Ship Fate Date DD Asashiwo Gunfire.(B Peresviet, ) 02/11/1904 DD Shirakumo Gunfire.(Chang To Shan, Electric Cliff, White Wolf Hill, ) 02/11/1904 TR Shanghai Maru Boarded and scuttled by CA Rossiya 02/12/1904 AMC Toyohashi Maru Mined 02/17/1904 AMC Koto Maru Mined 03/16/1904 AMC Kumano Maru Mined 03/16/1904 TR Naminoue Maru Gunfire.(CL Pallada, CL Diana, ) 03/18/1904
Ship Fate Date DD Steregushchi Gunfire.(B Shikishima, B Yashima, ) 02/11/1904 B Sevastopol Gunfire and torpedoes.(B Shikishima, B Yashima, B Hatsuse, ) 02/11/1904 B Peresviet Gunfire.(B Hatsuse, B Shikishima, B Yashima, ) 02/11/1904 DD Smyeli Gunfire.(CL Takasago, CL Chitose, CL Yoshino, ) 02/18/1904 DD Rastoropni Gunfire.(CL Takasago, CL Kasagi, ) 02/18/1904 DD Boevoi Gunfire.(CL Takasago, CL Chitose, CL Kasagi, CL Yoshino, ) 02/18/1904 DD Vnimatelni Gunfire.(CL Chitose, CL Yoshino, CL Takasago, CL Kasagi, ) 02/18/1904 DD Boiki Gunfire.(CL Chitose, CL Takasago, ) 02/18/1904 Pitzuwo Harbor Gunfire.(B Mikasa, B Asahi, B Fuji, ) 02/25/1904 DD Strashni Gunfire.(CL Chitose, CL Takasago, CL Kasagi, ) 03/17/1904 Pitzuwo Harbor Gunfire.(B Hatsuse, B Shikishima, B Yashima, ) 03/31/1904
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2014 11:30:33 GMT -6
I have now sunk 16 Russian destroyers, and two battleships, but my points lead has dwindled to 22,000. I lost two destroyers because the AI sent them around the peninsula and they ran in circles in a bay for most of the turn. I could not get them to head back out to sea. Frustrating. I am now at turn 13. I don't understand what is going wrong even though I have sunk 18 Russian ships with a loss of four destroyers, battered three land targets etc. I have kept my attrition rate low and moved some ships to Chimunpo or whatever. I detect that the game is pushing toward objectives that will cost me ships, which I do not intend to do. My strategy is based on what I perceive Togo wanted to do, protect his force while increasing the level of attrition of the Russian naval force but more importantly, blockading it. The railroad was cut to Port Arthur, so the land battle is apparently moving forward. What could I be doing wrong? I need to reevaluate my actions.
|
|
|
Post by alex on Feb 4, 2014 11:44:26 GMT -6
to get accurate results with realistic combat ratio I use some house rules: - play on admiral mode only;
- don't hunt for enemy ships;
- don't fight to the death;
- don't use GPS and radio for fleet navigation and control;
- don't make maneuvers that were impossible in history (command & control problems)
|
|