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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 12:40:11 GMT -6
Play - By - Council General Discussion
Introduction
This thread is reserved for discussion pertaining directly to the conduct of the Play-by-Council game; separate threads will be created for official ballot proposals, and for the ballots themselves, for discussion amongst members of the respective Boards, and for official orders to be posted by Theatre Commanders. Discussion about the game (as opposed to strictly in-game discussion) will take place on the 'interest check' thread for now. Links to each of these threads will be provided here as soon as they have been created.
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 12:40:41 GMT -6
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 12:41:10 GMT -6
- Reserved -
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 13:10:11 GMT -6
The Road Map
At present, I am accepting applications for specialised roles, and I'd like to encourage all participants to find themselves a niche - if I don't have a role you'd like, feel free to come up with a job for yourself that suits you.
The format for each round of gameplay will be as follows:
1. I will play the game for a period of time. 2. I will present a detailed report on what has transpired. 3. There will be a period of open discussion. 4. Official proposals will be made and collated into a single ballot for the period to determine our next actions. 5. All participants will vote on the ballot. 6. Repeat.
Since we're now starting at the very beginning of the game, we're beginning at step 3 and working our way down. In order to progress to January 1900 of the game, we'll need to do the following;
1. An open discussion about our overall strategy for the start of the game. We should discuss proposals for our foreign policy, overarching force structure, technological priorities, and so on. This will form the basis of our first ballot. 2. The creation of the legacy fleet. Once we've decided on a rough force structure, I propose that we decide how our starting funds will be divided between the different ship types - how much money will be allocated to each type of ship, and roughly how many ships of each type we want. We'll need to decide which should be existing and which should be under construction. All of this should be decided by the formal ballot process; proposals will be submitted, debated here in this thread, and then voted on. That will be ballot number 2. 3. If we have a design board by this point, it will draw up the requirements for our starting ships. If a design board has not been formed, this will be a job for all players, and another ballot. 4. Once the design board has provided its requirements, the ship design competition will open for all legacy ships. 5. A vote of all players to choose the winners will complete the creation of the legacy fleet. 6. A final ballot will be conducted to tie up any loose ends - such as exact technology priorities - and to decide how the fleet will be deployed.
I'd like to set the tentative goal of getting each of the 6 phases done within 24 hours of the last, starting now with phase 1 - the open discussion. If possible, we'll move quicker, but we have to accept the limitations of the medium we're using, which does not lend itself to rapid communication.
So, without further ado, I'd like to open the floor for the discussion of our early game strategy which will determine the composition of our legacy fleet and our initial setup. Proposals may be made at any time; I'll make sure to copy them all down and integrate them into our first ballot.
Finally, I'd just like to remind everyone that this is all a work in progress. I'm making all of this up as I go along, and I have no doubt that changes will have to be made to our operating procedures. If anybody has any ideas for how the game should work, now is the best time to voice them - please do so in the 'interest check' thread. No doubt, just about everything is going to need tweaking once theory becomes practice, but the only way to figure things out is to get stuck in.
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Post by fredsanford on Jan 27, 2018 14:30:07 GMT -6
Overall Strategy: I believe that conflict with the upstart Americans is inevitable. Of all the competing powers, the USA presents the largest long-term threat to our empire. The German economy is also strong, and they are a technically advanced power, so the Germans must not be ignored of course. However, our geographical position is superior such that we can probably blockade Germany in most cases, making eventual victory inevitable barring a disasterous engagement with them. All other powers are target practice, or possibly allies. In peacetime, it won't generally be necessary to base more that the required minimum of tonnage in the North American East Coast, Caribbean, and NA West Coast regions. However, in order to be on a sound footing for eventual war with the USA, I recommend an extensive program of base expansion beginning at the very start. The goal should be the ability to base the entire battle fleet in the NA East Coast, or at least the portion required to dominate the US fleet and effectively blockade the region. The Caribbean should also have an extensive base expansion program with an eye toward dominating the region such that upon successful conclusion of a war with the USA, we can gain control of Panama so that we will control the canal under construction there. This will facilitate our overall global sea control greatly. Given the rapid growth of the US economy, they will eventually outstrip us if we let them grow unhindered. I believe our strategy should prioritize the base expansion recommended above, with a goal of decisive engagement and destruction of the US Navy by around 1910-1915. Force Structure: The Royal Navy is Mahanian Sea Control power as well as a Global Naval Power. The first part of that statement implies that the RN should maintain a battle fleet second to none that is capable of blockading any opponent and/or defeating them decisively in head-to-head combat. The second part of the initial statement means that the RN is responsible for maintain Sea Lines of Communications (SLOC) the world over. Therefore, a portion of our force will need to be dedicated to trade route and colonial protection. A large number of vessels is required to accomplish this. These vessels should be of sufficient size and power to enable them to contest enemy raiders- the numbers required to provide global coverage make 'absolute best of type technically possible' cost-prohibitive. However, reasonably powerful units will make it necessary for a raiding enemy to build uneconomically large vessels if they wish to succeed in individual combat, or easily-disposed small or weak CL's/AMC's. Therefore, the SLOC security force should be comprised of mid-sized CL's and CA's. CL's should be 6,000 tons, 24kt, 6" gun armed similar to: CA's for SLOC duty should be 10,000 ton, 24kt, 8" gun armed similar to: Seven CL's and Nine CA's will cover all SLOC/Colonial requirements, with no area having more than 1,000 tons excess. Distribution would be: West Africa: 1 CL Mediterranean: 3 CA, 1 CL Indian Ocean: 1 CA, 2 CL Southeast Asia: 1 CA, 2 CL Northeast Asia: 1 CA West Coast N America: 1 CA East Coast N America: 1 CA, 1 CL Caribbean: 1 CA The Battle Fleet is covered in the next post.
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Post by oaktree on Jan 27, 2018 14:47:09 GMT -6
I concur with the designs and approximate force structure for colonial support. Should there also be a few extra ships in these classes in order to support refits, losses, and temporary needs in various areas?
If the weakening of the USA as a long-term foe is an immediate goal then I agree that base expansion in that area is a priority. However, I advocate any initial efforts in a war with the USA to be concentrated in the Caribbean - with a goal to wrest Panama from the USA if possible. Splitting the USA defense zones to be distant from each other would be a useful advantage.
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Post by fredsanford on Jan 27, 2018 14:53:57 GMT -6
Force Structure- Battle Fleet (inc. Coastal Forces) The RN has the largest docks in the world available in January 1900, and the battleships of the RN should make use of them. Battleships will be large, fast and well-armed, although the poor-performance 13" guns will not be used until revisions are made to their design, or other high-quality large caliber guns become available. Recommended battleship design is as follows- 16,000 tons, 19kt, w/ 4-12" and 14-7" guns: A large "Fleet Cruiser" of 15,600 tons, 24kt, armed with 4-10" and 14-6" guns will supplement the battleline: A 500 ton, 26kt destroyer armed with 3" guns and 4 torpedo tubes is also recommended. Only 14 of these vessels will be included until torpedo technology matures. Finally, 12 200-ton minesweepers will be constructed to provide coastal patrol vessels. More will be procured as the submarine threat is anticipated to grow over time. Initial fleet composition: Along with the 9 CA's and 7 CL's recommended to comprise the SLOC fleet, there are sufficient resources to procure the following Battle Fleet: 10 (+4 under construction) Battleships 2 (+2) Fleet CA's (10") 1 (+3) CL's (same class as SLOC CL's) for fleet scouting, SLOC redundancy and home area cruiser duty. 14 DD 12 MS. The construction budget for the projected ships ( 4 B, 2 CA, and 3 CL) will be about 18M. However, it is recommended to pause these for one month in order to provide funds for base expansion (see below). Initial base expansion: It costs 2.4M to expand a base. Recommended initial expansions are all 4 North American bases (Halifax, Nova Scotia, Bermuda and Newfoundland) and the Caribbean bases Jamaica and Trinidad (the two largest). Finally, the construction dock capacity should be expanded. Other bases can be expanded as funding becomes available, and follow-on expansion to the aforementioned six initial bases be conducted such that the entire battle fleet can be adequately based in N. America East Coast, and the Caribbean as well such that dominance of both sea areas can be assured.
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Post by fredsanford on Jan 27, 2018 14:56:27 GMT -6
I concur with the designs and approximate force structure for colonial support. Should there also be a few extra ships in these classes in order to support refits, losses, and temporary needs in various areas? If the weakening of the USA as a long-term foe is an immediate goal then I agree that base expansion in that area is a priority. However, I advocate any initial efforts in a war with the USA to be concentrated in the Caribbean - with a goal to wrest Panama from the USA if possible. Splitting the USA defense zones to be distant from each other would be a useful advantage. Agree on all points. I've included some extra CL's and large CA's to provide redundancy for SLOC fleet. Base expansions will conform to your thoughts- Panama is definitely a strategic prize! It may take more than one war to beat the US down sufficiently.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 15:18:22 GMT -6
Note that Panama is a 10 point colony and can't be invaded. The best way to take it is to collapse USA and via reparation.
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Post by boomboomf22 on Jan 27, 2018 17:26:39 GMT -6
Personally as someone aiming for the design gruppe I feel that the B is a bit underarmored on the BE. While a nice splinterproof 2" main deck is nice it is prohibitively heavy on a 16k ton B that will almost certainly be scrapped as soon as dreadnoughts show up (unless we use huge #s of them). Thus I feel that deck should be cut to 1.5 or even 1" and the weight be invested in thicker BE. Utimatly if we lose these ships it will probably be to fire or BE flooding, not plunging fire from other Pre-dreadnoughts.
Just my thoughts
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Post by boomboomf22 on Jan 27, 2018 17:31:48 GMT -6
Additionally my thoughts on fleet comp are thus: I feel our screen of light vessels at game start will be a bit too light, so I think we should trade one B for a couple 5000ish ton 23kt protected cruisers as part of the already built fleet.
Secondly my experience has been that a very valuable investment can be a 22-23kt protobattlecruser of some sort, so I feel that maybe either one of our under construction Bs or existing Bs should be replaced with that.
Note I am away from my computer or I would submit my proposals for Large ACs
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Post by Airy W on Jan 27, 2018 19:29:13 GMT -6
Those ships are quite large and expensive. Even reducing the speed by one knot could allow for substantial weight savings. And is there really a point in having that many guns on a battleship if it can't catch the enemy? I would prefer a smaller battleship with an inferior battery if it had a 20 knot speed.
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 19:34:56 GMT -6
Additionally my thoughts on fleet comp are thus: I feel our screen of light vessels at game start will be a bit too light, so I think we should trade one B for a couple 5000ish ton 23kt protected cruisers as part of the already built fleet. Secondly my experience has been that a very valuable investment can be a 22-23kt protobattlecruser of some sort, so I feel that maybe either one of our under construction Bs or existing Bs should be replaced with that. Note I am away from my computer or I would submit my proposals for Large ACs Of course, example designs are perfectly useful at the moment, but there's no rush for anyone to post designs yet - until this phase is over and the force structure is actually agreed upon, the design competitions can't begin.
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 19:45:08 GMT -6
Regarding our current discussion - I reccomend that we stay away from debating the exact specifics of these ship designs, because that's what the design competition stage will be for.
Regarding fredansford's American strategy: it also occurred to me in my last UK game that beating the Americans early might be a good idea. If we were to aim to strike a pre-emptive blow against the Americans, I think we ought to actually do it as early as possible, before the dreadnought race gives them a good chance to start catching us up. Rather than peripheral operations against the Carribean, I'd advocate a decisive battle with the American fleet with the objective of weakening it as much as possible. However, naturally, we must also consider the German threat, and similarly an early blow against Germany, before their fleet has a chance to expand beyond the size of France and Russia, might be very profitable.
As for Alliances - I would advocate Splendid Isolation until necessity presents itself. Of all the Alliance possibilities, I believe that America, naturally, is the best, (if we were to go the historical route and consider them a friend rather than a rival) followed by Japan due to the geographical possibilities which that opens up. I cannot see that the benefits of alliance with any other power would outweigh the costs.
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Post by generalvikus on Jan 27, 2018 19:46:58 GMT -6
Initial fleet composition: Along with the 9 CA's and 7 CL's recommended to comprise the SLOC fleet, there are sufficient resources to procure the following Battle Fleet: 10 (+4 under construction) Battleships 2 (+2) Fleet CA's (10") 1 (+3) CL's (same class as SLOC CL's) for fleet scouting, SLOC redundancy and home area cruiser duty. 14 DD 12 MS. The construction budget for the projected ships ( 4 B, 2 CA, and 3 CL) will be about 18M. However, it is recommended to pause these for one month in order to provide funds for base expansion (see below). I may be entirely wrong about this, but this looks like it may have been worked out with 'large' fleet size to me. Are you aware that we're using 'very large?'
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