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Post by axe99 on Mar 22, 2019 16:34:21 GMT -6
Steam takes a 30% cut as far as I know, which would represent a rather high cost for some questionable increase in visibility. Do you know how much does the NWS Wargaming store take? Without that knowledge how much steam take isn't a meaningful argument. I also don't think the increase in visibility is questionable at all. Most indie games that went to steam saw an increase in 3-100 times more sales and there really isn't any other game like this as far as I know. There are so many people that want a game like this but doesn't know about it. I think (the impression I get, not particularly scientific though) the NWS store is run by the devs (so a bit like other publisher proprietary stores), although could be wrong. At the end of the day, I think the devs should do what they're comfortable with (and not suggesting you're not suggesting this ), but I agree that I'd expect a Steam release to be positive financially. As RtW2 isn't Fredrik's main job, I imagine Fredrik has to balance his time pretty carefully - so it might be a case that unless Steam could reliably cover the cost of Fredrik or William doing it full-time, that the cost in extra time spent managing releasing on Steam isn't practical for them. Totes guessing though, for all I know we're all part of a social experiment and not releasing on Steam is to keep the sample for the experiment manageable .
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Post by thatzenoguy on Mar 23, 2019 3:45:15 GMT -6
A developer statement would be nice! ;D
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Husky
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Post by Husky on Mar 23, 2019 4:01:27 GMT -6
TBH although I am by no means anti-STEAM (looking at my libary right now. My wallet still cries.) I prefer stores like gog.com or NWS. I don't like having to rely on an online server. Even though STEAM has an offline mode, it sometimes still bugs out, requiring you to go online.
Even in this day in age, where an internet connection is pretty much "normal", having to rely on it still rubs me the wrong way.
So, purely from my persepective, I don't mind it being in the NWS store "only". As for visibility, marketing and such, I can't really tell how much STEAM will help with that, considering I can't see them not taking a nice chunk of money from the devs.
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Post by thatzenoguy on Mar 23, 2019 6:17:27 GMT -6
TBH although I am by no means anti-STEAM (looking at my libary right now. My wallet still cries.) I prefer stores like gog.com or NWS. I don't like having to rely on an online server. Even though STEAM has an offline mode, it sometimes still bugs out, requiring you to go online. Even in this day in age, where an internet connection is pretty much "normal", having to rely on it still rubs me the wrong way. So, purely from my persepective, I don't mind it being in the NWS store "only". As for visibility, marketing and such, I can't really tell how much STEAM will help with that, considering I can't see them not taking a nice chunk of money from the devs. Putting it on GOG would also help a lot!
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Post by williammiller on Mar 23, 2019 9:13:30 GMT -6
We did consider Steam at one point, but all I can say for now is that certain issues pushed us away.
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Post by triggerhappypilot on Mar 23, 2019 19:17:29 GMT -6
I don't blame you, Steam's been extremely **** to small developers lately.
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76mm
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Post by 76mm on Mar 25, 2019 4:49:01 GMT -6
Hi, I'm interested in this game but don't have RTW1, so don't really understand how it works. Could someone pls help me with four questions? I tried searching but didn't get any results... 1) How do maps work? Is there a map editor? 2) So this game will have fully-featured aircraft, or will they be greatly abstracted somehow? 3) Is it possible to use historic ship types in the game, or do you have to design and build everything? 4) Is there a "sandbox mode" so that we can only play the naval battles instead of some kind of campaign?
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Post by dorn on Mar 25, 2019 5:52:12 GMT -6
Hi, I'm interested in this game but don't have RTW1, so don't really understand how it works. Could someone pls help me with four questions? I tried searching but didn't get any results... 1) How do maps work? Is there a map editor? 2) So this game will have fully-featured aircraft, or will they be greatly abstracted somehow? 3) Is it possible to use historic ship types in the game, or do you have to design and build everything? 4) Is there a "sandbox mode" so that we can only play the naval battles instead of some kind of campaign? Welcome to the forum 76mm. I will try to answer your question.
1. It is world map and there are "areas" which is linked to the history importance and ships are moved between these areas of operation. Map can be modded adding another areas and several community members have done this. We can see on developers journal that there are probably no major changes except noticing additional areas added to adapt area importance of 1900-1950. See enclosed picture of map from RTW1
2. According information developers provided aircrafts (including airships) will be presented in game and can operate from either land bases or aicraft carriers. Player will not design aicrafts but could specify important attributes and is provided by certain designs. Than player can choose design which will go through prototype stage to production.
3. In RTW every ship could be named and even renamed later by player and I do not think it will change in RTW2.
4. In RTW it was not and there is not information that it will be in RTW2 My personal opinion: As it seems interesting to have sanbox mode for battles, it would allow player to test a lot of thinks and get knowledge which is better not to have. At least for the first one or two games are best as we are trying what works and discard what does not. So we are a little in similar situation as the responsible people was in history. Without sandbox we have some guidlines how to play but without excact possibility to try in sandbox we still just estimate what is better. With sandbox this part of beauty is lost. But I do not try it is tempting to just think trying our designs against other designs.
Note: all information presented by me is from information given us by developers during development so some could be changed in final version
I would suggest reading Developers journal. There are a lot of detailed information including some logbooks from beta testing. It can give you much more overview of RTW2.
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Post by akosjaccik on Mar 25, 2019 6:13:43 GMT -6
Hi, I'm interested in this game but don't have RTW1, so don't really understand how it works. Could someone pls help me with four questions? I tried searching but didn't get any results... Welcome! Before anything, do take into consideration, please, that I only know or think I "know" whatever could I get my hands on from developer's blogs and other sources, so take everything with a grain of salt. There are esentially two maps in the game. The "strategic map" is divided into multiple sections with different parameters. These parameters are largely linked to the ports (the little flags on the map), like first and foremost currently ruling power, then coastal batteries, oil avability, base capacity etc., but the major thing is not quite, which is simply your ships in that exact sea region. Meaning, that you fight for exact ports, but the fleets are stationed and battles are fought in general in these larger areas. The ratio of the forces inside one of these decides for example blockading. I might explain this oddly, so to put it simply: whatever ships are inside any given "rectangle", can meet with each other and only with each other. Overall, in the "strategic view", the game is a bit like chess. Some changes appear on the map by the time, like oil can be discovered randomly or the Panama canal opens up.
(Source: Garrison's Games)
The battle or "tactical" map however is (while the game is, strictly speaking still turn-based) similar to an RTS in that you don't have borders, you get the entire globe and should you get enough time, you could sail around it. Generating the battle requires input from the Big Area Sector that I described above (mission, forces [these are selected semi-randomly, you don't have input in this regard, but you can accept/deny the missions!], starting positions etc.), but once the actual battle is happening, it is not relevant anymore for the time being and you can freely go wherever for a given time, and of course, every ship's exact position and status is important. You can see this for example here: ...where mobeer had a bit of a problem with his mission. ( Source) Truth be told, however, as you will be mission-focused, you'll always ever use a smaller area of the globe and the ports in the near vicinity. Once the battle is over, it's results will be carried over to the strategic map's data.
We still don't have every information available on this issue, but we know that you can... > Start a fairly well-done procurement procedure, though you can't design aircraft yourself ( see more here) > Start using said designs on either carriers (every TB, DB and fighter will be carrier-capable as to my understanding), or land-bases > CAP will be automated, but you will be able to edit squadrons, organize and start strikes - but not manually control aircraft in the way you can with your ships. There are no pre-sets if that's what you are thinking about. They can't be, because the research system means that you will rarely, if ever get the same exact techs in order and on time required to build or simulate a "historic design". You are researching tech elements, not entire ships, and often times for a given historical ship, you might already have better tech say, in engine technology, but still can't build the gun caliber you'd need for that. Overall still, you will reach a point in your game sometime where you can build a fairly believable "Kongo-class" or something, should you choose so, but not exactly, and you will have to design it yourself, as you'll not get a button like "Build Essex-class x1".
No, there is "only" campaign. RtW is, frankly, less about "historical ships" and "historical battles", and far more about the armament race, designing and building ships, and... the campaign, really. This is not "fight Tsushima again"-game, if you are interested in that, Steam and Iron is probably the better title, but I know barely anything about that.
Edit: Oh, sorry, I see what you mean, so you design X ship, and then set it up against say, the AI's Y ships in a controlled environment? Yeah, unfortunately, no, no "sandbox" mode, everything has to go well the first time and in "real" random/chaotic battles.
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76mm
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Post by 76mm on Mar 25, 2019 12:55:46 GMT -6
Hey guys, thanks for the explanations. Let me explain what I'm trying to do: I like to create WWII-era fictional wars featuring fictional countries and maps but historical equipment (German vs Soviet, the wider the range the better). I was looking to use this game to play the naval battles for these campaigns, but without a sandbox mode definitely can't do that...
I've looked pretty hard for a game that I could use for this and am kind of amazed that I could not find a World War II era tactical naval computer game which included aircraft. If I've overlooked one, please let me know!
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Post by vonfriedman on Mar 25, 2019 13:26:40 GMT -6
The Steam and Iron series games allows you to simulate the WW1 naval war in the North Sea, to play a lot of historical or fictional encounters/operations and also to simulate the entire Russo Japanese naval war. It is to be hoped that the game mechanism developed for RTW2, with aircraft carriers etc., will soon be exploited by NWS so as to allow players to simulate WW2 as well.
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76mm
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Post by 76mm on Mar 25, 2019 13:47:30 GMT -6
The Steam and Iron series games allows you to simulate the WW1 naval war in the North Sea, to play a lot of historical or fictional encounters/operations and also to simulate the entire Russo Japanese naval war. It is to be hoped that the game mechanism developed for RTW2, with aircraft carriers etc., will soon be exploited by NWS so as to allow players to simulate WW2 as well. Ah, that sounds more like what I am looking for...will keep waiting I guess.
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Post by charliezulu on Mar 25, 2019 18:45:40 GMT -6
Has anyone tried text-editing saved scenarios to set up "arena" style matches? Presumably the scenario detailes are stored inside the .bcs file or something like that...
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Post by vonfriedman on Mar 26, 2019 1:38:36 GMT -6
Look at the "Custom scenario" and the "User made campaign - Arena of Steel" threads in the pages entitled: "NWS Steam and Iron (SAI)". The SAI game contains a scenario generator that allows you to create or recreate any naval battle of the early XX century period even with a large number of ships (I did it myself). There is also a campaign generator, which is less easy to use.
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zoomar
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Post by zoomar on Mar 28, 2019 10:30:34 GMT -6
This may have been mentioned, but to me, one of the unfortunate omissions in the entire RTW system is the inability of players to construct "war games within the war game". In other words an ability for the player to test their own ship designs against known other nations' ships in hypothetical SAI-like engagements that do not play a role on the overall game. Something like how real navies could test their ship designs and tactics during peacetime with war games and war college exercises. Not only does this simulate how navies often decide things, it would eliminate the frustration that can occur in RTW when you design what you believe to be a wonderful battleship class and never get to see them in action because a war never breaks out or the game AI never creates a battle that includes them. I think this would increase the "fun" quotient of RTW without impacting its wonderful overall system.
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