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Post by thatzenoguy on Dec 9, 2018 1:36:35 GMT -6
Once the 30's hits, and good 'ol fuhrer becomes the leader of germany, will any event artworks feature the swastika?
I firmly believe that it should be present in at least one artwork, as the nazi party was of course a big player in WW2.
Likewise, the rising sun should be there for the Imperial Japanese Navy.
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Post by axe99 on Dec 9, 2018 3:40:16 GMT -6
While I'm not suggesting that there isn't room for RtW's aesthetics to improve, given the limited time available to the devs, I'd far prefer Fredrik was working on getting carrier aircraft landing on and launching rates right, rather than worrying too much about a flag on a political map - the places where I spend most of my time in RtW is either in battles (where there aren't any flags iirc) or in the ship designer (same story). If there was to be time spent on aesthetics, I'd probably prefer it was spent in these two places as well (more detail to ship models and in the tactical battle map). That's just my 2 cents though - for me RtW is more about the ships and the fleets than the particular politics.
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Post by thatzenoguy on Dec 9, 2018 4:56:06 GMT -6
While I'm not suggesting that there isn't room for RtW's aesthetics to improve, given the limited time available to the devs, I'd far prefer Fredrik was working on getting carrier aircraft landing on and launching rates right, rather than worrying too much about a flag on a political map - the places where I spend most of my time in RtW is either in battles (where there aren't any flags iirc) or in the ship designer (same story). If there was to be time spent on aesthetics, I'd probably prefer it was spent in these two places as well (more detail to ship models and in the tactical battle map). That's just my 2 cents though - for me RtW is more about the ships and the fleets than the particular politics. IIRC the game uses pretty basic stock images. All they have to do is link an event to a picture.
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Post by noshurviverse on Dec 9, 2018 8:36:19 GMT -6
I cannot see any real reason why not to. Many franchises began censoring the authentic symbology of Nazi Germany primarily as a way to avoid government censorship of their titles. However, if I understand correctly, this practice has somewhat died down.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Dec 9, 2018 9:08:10 GMT -6
There is an aspect of the game that would be applicable to this conversation, however I do not know off-hand if I am at liberty to discuss it. William will chime in if he deems it due.
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Post by axe99 on Dec 9, 2018 15:42:49 GMT -6
While I'm not suggesting that there isn't room for RtW's aesthetics to improve, given the limited time available to the devs, I'd far prefer Fredrik was working on getting carrier aircraft landing on and launching rates right, rather than worrying too much about a flag on a political map - the places where I spend most of my time in RtW is either in battles (where there aren't any flags iirc) or in the ship designer (same story). If there was to be time spent on aesthetics, I'd probably prefer it was spent in these two places as well (more detail to ship models and in the tactical battle map). That's just my 2 cents though - for me RtW is more about the ships and the fleets than the particular politics. IIRC the game uses pretty basic stock images. All they have to do is link an event to a picture. It's not just that though - if the politics work anything like RtW1 (which I'm assuming they do, but might be right off), then there's no guarantee in a particular alt-history playthrough that there will be a WW1 (hence Kaiser overthrown hence change in system of Government) and if the Kaiser is overthrown, there's no guarantee that they're replaced by a Weimar-republic style system and then there's no guarantee that economic turmoil will lead to it being fundamentally weakened and open to exploitation by extremist groups, and then there's no guarantee that it's the Nazi's that'll come out on top. So to do it 'right' (particularly as in the fifty-year period it's not like only Germany and Russia are the only countries that could have had changes in system of Government, had the conditions been right for it), rather than to have a hardcoded 'Press N for Nazi' event, it gets super-complicated super-fast (same story for the USSR while we're at it - and iirc the Soviet flag never made it into RtW1, although if it did and I missed it, then I'm both sorry and embarrassed!). I mean, I wouldn't be unhappy with a "press N for Nazi" event (although if this happened, I'd also suggest a "press S for Soviet" companion) but it seems pretty railroadey unless there's a more complex system around it. We could end up with lots of stuff that, if we think about it, doesn't really make sense in the particular playthrough we're having.
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Post by thatzenoguy on Dec 9, 2018 16:29:20 GMT -6
IIRC the game uses pretty basic stock images. All they have to do is link an event to a picture. It's not just that though - if the politics work anything like RtW1 (which I'm assuming they do, but might be right off), then there's no guarantee in a particular alt-history playthrough that there will be a WW1 (hence Kaiser overthrown hence change in system of Government) and if the Kaiser is overthrown, there's no guarantee that they're replaced by a Weimar-republic style system and then there's no guarantee that economic turmoil will lead to it being fundamentally weakened and open to exploitation by extremist groups, and then there's no guarantee that it's the Nazi's that'll come out on top. So to do it 'right' (particularly as in the fifty-year period it's not like only Germany and Russia are the only countries that could have had changes in system of Government, had the conditions been right for it), rather than to have a hardcoded 'Press N for Nazi' event, it gets super-complicated super-fast (same story for the USSR while we're at it - and iirc the Soviet flag never made it into RtW1, although if it did and I missed it, then I'm both sorry and embarrassed!). I mean, I wouldn't be unhappy with a "press N for Nazi" event (although if this happened, I'd also suggest a "press S for Soviet" companion) but it seems pretty railroadey unless there's a more complex system around it. We could end up with lots of stuff that, if we think about it, doesn't really make sense in the particular playthrough we're having. There's no guarantee that there'll be nazis in the 30's, but IIRC they did say that there's going to be 'less kaisers and more fuhrers' at a certain point of the game.
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Post by axe99 on Dec 10, 2018 19:04:38 GMT -6
Don't get me wrong, it'd be cool if they changed the flags, it's just not something that's important for me, personally - I'm in it to sink ships and rule the waves, and am ensign-agnostic (so I'm not really worried if the 'right' flag is there or not, particularly given the fairly minimal UI, but that's just a point of view - it's just as valid to want time spent on the right flags as well) . (On that note, if there were flags, then I think the naval ensigns would be the best ones to use - and for most of it's life the KM under the NSDAP had a swastika in it's ensign, iirc, so you'd still have one there if they did).
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Post by hardlec on Dec 13, 2018 10:26:38 GMT -6
If alternative history is the goal, NAZIs can be cheerfully eliminated. In a quasi-historical game, NAZI symbols and the Hammer and sickle of Communist Russia should occur.
One HUMONGOUS item: Players should make choices and have the AI should respond.
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Post by corsair on Dec 13, 2018 12:54:22 GMT -6
I'm more interested in the overhead view of the ship layout being more detailed/accurate, if we're going to talk about smaller issues. For example, if you have an odd number of secondary turrets, you'll only see an even number split along each side of the ship, and the last turret does not appear. E.g. if you have seven dual 5" turrets as secondaries, you'll see three along each side but the seventh is not shown. I really want to see all the turrets, so, for example, perhaps give the user the option to place that seventh secondary turret either fore or aft along the centerline.
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Post by sittingduck on Dec 13, 2018 14:00:28 GMT -6
As to the swastika, I consider it as part of the historical reality - it was there, it was used, it should not be discarded. It's what was. Changing history to suite current peeves isn't condusive to recognizing what happened or why it happened or why it should be remembered and not allowed to re-occur. If it's a legal issue, as it is in some countries, then use the foot part of the swastika without the interior cross (like Kingfisher's Atlantic Fleet does) and you have an appropriate, legal, compromise. (Sorry, rant over...) I agree that the ship design would be enhanced if the player was able to place more on the layout or relocate current displayed items, but being realistic, the designers aren't obligated to devote their valuable time and efforts in this. Not being program savvy myself I'd still guess it would be a pain to expand the ship design feature (although it appears RTW2 is moving in that direction) so much that those such as myself who enjoy that part of the game more than the Battle Screens (Heresy! Burn him at the stake!) could wallow in that luxury. Pure and simple just another wishlist item for me. If I sacrifice a goat or two could I perhaps get a remote, rumbling reply from the great god (little "g") Deevel-Operz up on Mount Deezine that provides a glimmer of light more on the Ship Design changes? Two goats and a calf?
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Post by JagdFlanker on Dec 13, 2018 17:23:29 GMT -6
i never worry about swastikas being included in any WW2 game since someone always mods them in anyways
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Post by boomboomf22 on Dec 14, 2018 1:31:24 GMT -6
One HUMONGOUS item: Players should make choices and have the AI should respond. Are you gonna frigging spam a variant of this comment on every thread? Cause so far everyone I have opened today has you posting some version of it. You are incredibly lucky that the mods/devs on this forum are not like the average for most online forums or you would be gone already.
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Post by corsair on Dec 14, 2018 2:11:59 GMT -6
I agree that the ship design would be enhanced if the player was able to place more on the layout or relocate current displayed items, but being realistic, the designers aren't obligated to devote their valuable time and efforts in this. Oh, I don't expect it to be some amazing, super high fidelity graphical depiction. But the thing with the odd number of turrets just bugged me. Either show all the turrets, or put in a restriction which only allows an even number of secondary turrets in certain cases (like the hypothetical I gave, limit the design to six or eight dual turrets, then they can all be shown, instead of that poor odd man out turret disappearing from view).
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Post by sittingduck on Dec 14, 2018 2:32:10 GMT -6
I agree that the ship design would be enhanced if the player was able to place more on the layout or relocate current displayed items, but being realistic, the designers aren't obligated to devote their valuable time and efforts in this. Oh, I don't expect it to be some amazing, super high fidelity graphical depiction. But the thing with the odd number of turrets just bugged me. Either show all the turrets, or put in a restriction which only allows an even number of secondary turrets in certain cases (like the hypothetical I gave, limit the design to six or eight dual turrets, then they can all be shown, instead of that poor odd man out turret disappearing from view). Certainly see your point. I guess it's because the drawing function works by "mirroring" the layout, split down the centerline. I've gone so far as to draw a really bad turret on the centerline upon occasion. I believe RTW2 may not have the same asymmetrical system because of the carrier designs... if this is true then perhaps the odd gun might be displayed. Of course I don't know and my guesses have been wide of the mark more often than not.
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