|
Post by admiralhood on Dec 26, 2018 1:06:07 GMT -6
First of all,
Happy holidays to my fellow admirals and especially to the RTW2 developing team!
I am suddenly curious about the types of bombs that could be used by aircraft in the RTW2 game. Will a player be enabled to choose what he want to load his bombers with (AP bombs or HE bombs), or, there is only one type of bomb with different weight?
Also, will the player be allowed to load his torpedo bombs with bombs like the IJN has done in the Attack on Pearl Harbor or Battle of Midway?
|
|
|
Post by williammiller on Dec 26, 2018 8:40:54 GMT -6
First of all, Happy holidays to my fellow admirals and especially to the RTW2 developing team! I am suddenly curious about the types of bombs that could be used by aircraft in the RTW2 game. Will a player be enabled to choose what he want to load his bombers with (AP bombs or HE bombs), or, there is only one type of bomb with different weight? Also, will the player be allowed to load his torpedo bombs with bombs like the IJN has done in the Attack on Pearl Harbor or Battle of Midway? There are AP and HE types of bombs (of various weights ranging from 100 lbs to at least 4000 lbs IIRC) with different penetration and damage effects; and yes, torpedo planes can carry bombs at times.
|
|
|
Post by noshurviverse on Dec 26, 2018 9:23:33 GMT -6
Back in May this image was released. While no doubt there's been changes made, we can learn a lot from this about how RtW2 will handle aircraft design. Firstly your question regarding equipping torpedo bombers with 'regular' bombs, we can see here that every aircraft with an 'H' or 'M' in the torpedo column also has a variety of bombloads. What that H/M means is at this point unclear, but I would expect 'Heavy'/'Medium', to explain what the torpedo is considered. As far as your question about AP/HE bombs, I have no direct evidence (examination of prerelease information reveals no mention either way) several thoughts come to mind •Given that naval guns have AP/HE distinguished, I find it likely the same detail is applied to bombs •If all bombs were considered HE, they would be of little use against capital ships •If all bombs were considered AP, they would be of less use against escorts.
Now having examined this image in some more detail, I myself have some things that come to mind: •The 1929 Loire43 is a torpedo bomber, but has no marker in the torpedo column. •The 1936 Loire84 and Dewotine D.83 flying boats have 8,000lb max bombloads. I was originally going to criticize this, but I found some designs of the time that had comparable stats. •None of the flying boats and one floatplane scout (the 1934 Liore et Olivier LeO.82) are marked 'No' under floatplane. While I assume this is a bug, I assume it could also signify something else.
•The smallest size of bomb shown is 250lbs. Will we see smaller sizes at earlier stages of history or as an option for fighters (the aviation equivalent of putting 2x2" tertiary guns on your BB to use up some weight)
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Dec 26, 2018 9:46:05 GMT -6
First of all, Happy holidays to my fellow admirals and especially to the RTW2 developing team! I am suddenly curious about the types of bombs that could be used by aircraft in the RTW2 game. Will a player be enabled to choose what he want to load his bombers with (AP bombs or HE bombs), or, there is only one type of bomb with different weight? Also, will the player be allowed to load his torpedo bombs with bombs like the IJN has done in the Attack on Pearl Harbor or Battle of Midway? There are AP and HE types of bombs (of various weights ranging from 100 lbs to at least 4000 lbs IIRC) with different penetration and damage effects; and yes, torpedo planes can carry bombs at times. I hope the AP bombs work better than the 1980 lbs. AP's the Japanese dropped on Pearl Harbor, most did not explode due to poor tail fuses. They were really bombs, they were 16 inch shells from the Nagato's with the projectile hollowed out and more explosive inserted and a tail fuse inserted. They were poor although the one that hit the Arizona worked well, unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Dec 26, 2018 12:27:09 GMT -6
Back in May this image was released. While no doubt there's been changes made, we can learn a lot from this about how RtW2 will handle aircraft design. Firstly your question regarding equipping torpedo bombers with 'regular' bombs, we can see here that every aircraft with an 'H' or 'M' in the torpedo column also has a variety of bombloads. What that H/M means is at this point unclear, but I would expect 'Heavy'/'Medium', to explain what the torpedo is considered. As far as your question about AP/HE bombs, I have no direct evidence (examination of prerelease information reveals no mention either way) several thoughts come to mind •Given that naval guns have AP/HE distinguished, I find it likely the same detail is applied to bombs •If all bombs were considered HE, they would be of little use against capital ships •If all bombs were considered AP, they would be of less use against escorts.
Now having examined this image in some more detail, I myself have some things that come to mind: •The 1929 Loire43 is a torpedo bomber, but has no marker in the torpedo column. •The 1936 Loire84 and Dewotine D.83 flying boats have 8,000lb max bombloads. I was originally going to criticize this, but I found some designs of the time that had comparable stats. •None of the flying boats and one floatplane scout (the 1934 Liore et Olivier LeO.82) are marked 'No' under floatplane. While I assume this is a bug, I assume it could also signify something else.
•The smallest size of bomb shown is 250lbs. Will we see smaller sizes at earlier stages of history or as an option for fighters (the aviation equivalent of putting 2x2" tertiary guns on your BB to use up some weight)
This is a good assessment of this early image, and you've also correctly called out several bugs in the chart when have been or are being corrected. I suspect very shortly we will have a "mature" version of a game's random aircraft generation to share with you, and which I believe but cannot guarantee will have improved functionality.
|
|
|
Post by dorn on Dec 26, 2018 14:38:06 GMT -6
Back in May this image was released. While no doubt there's been changes made, we can learn a lot from this about how RtW2 will handle aircraft design. Firstly your question regarding equipping torpedo bombers with 'regular' bombs, we can see here that every aircraft with an 'H' or 'M' in the torpedo column also has a variety of bombloads. What that H/M means is at this point unclear, but I would expect 'Heavy'/'Medium', to explain what the torpedo is considered. As far as your question about AP/HE bombs, I have no direct evidence (examination of prerelease information reveals no mention either way) several thoughts come to mind •Given that naval guns have AP/HE distinguished, I find it likely the same detail is applied to bombs •If all bombs were considered HE, they would be of little use against capital ships •If all bombs were considered AP, they would be of less use against escorts.
Now having examined this image in some more detail, I myself have some things that come to mind: •The 1929 Loire43 is a torpedo bomber, but has no marker in the torpedo column. •The 1936 Loire84 and Dewotine D.83 flying boats have 8,000lb max bombloads. I was originally going to criticize this, but I found some designs of the time that had comparable stats. •None of the flying boats and one floatplane scout (the 1934 Liore et Olivier LeO.82) are marked 'No' under floatplane. While I assume this is a bug, I assume it could also signify something else.
•The smallest size of bomb shown is 250lbs. Will we see smaller sizes at earlier stages of history or as an option for fighters (the aviation equivalent of putting 2x2" tertiary guns on your BB to use up some weight)
I expect that names for planes are just names and will not have same qualities are real planes. As in game you can be advance or behind the real history.
HE bombs on capital ships could be devastating against light and medium AA. It could be handy against heavy armored capital ships when you will need a lot of hits.
|
|
|
Post by admiralhood on Dec 28, 2018 15:57:17 GMT -6
Back in May this image was released. While no doubt there's been changes made, we can learn a lot from this about how RtW2 will handle aircraft design. Firstly your question regarding equipping torpedo bombers with 'regular' bombs, we can see here that every aircraft with an 'H' or 'M' in the torpedo column also has a variety of bombloads. What that H/M means is at this point unclear, but I would expect 'Heavy'/'Medium', to explain what the torpedo is considered. As far as your question about AP/HE bombs, I have no direct evidence (examination of prerelease information reveals no mention either way) several thoughts come to mind •Given that naval guns have AP/HE distinguished, I find it likely the same detail is applied to bombs •If all bombs were considered HE, they would be of little use against capital ships •If all bombs were considered AP, they would be of less use against escorts.
Now having examined this image in some more detail, I myself have some things that come to mind: •The 1929 Loire43 is a torpedo bomber, but has no marker in the torpedo column. •The 1936 Loire84 and Dewotine D.83 flying boats have 8,000lb max bombloads. I was originally going to criticize this, but I found some designs of the time that had comparable stats. •None of the flying boats and one floatplane scout (the 1934 Liore et Olivier LeO.82) are marked 'No' under floatplane. While I assume this is a bug, I assume it could also signify something else.
•The smallest size of bomb shown is 250lbs. Will we see smaller sizes at earlier stages of history or as an option for fighters (the aviation equivalent of putting 2x2" tertiary guns on your BB to use up some weight)
This is a good assessment of this early image, and you've also correctly called out several bugs in the chart when have been or are being corrected. I suspect very shortly we will have a "mature" version of a game's random aircraft generation to share with you, and which I believe but cannot guarantee will have improved functionality. Since it is not marked out explicitly, may I ask if the user will be able to tell if a type of plane is a biplane or a monoplane?
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Dec 28, 2018 16:05:52 GMT -6
That at the moment is also on our to-do list, though that is all I can be sure about at the moment. It did specifically come up however!
|
|
|
Post by admiralhood on Dec 28, 2018 16:08:12 GMT -6
First of all, Happy holidays to my fellow admirals and especially to the RTW2 developing team! I am suddenly curious about the types of bombs that could be used by aircraft in the RTW2 game. Will a player be enabled to choose what he want to load his bombers with (AP bombs or HE bombs), or, there is only one type of bomb with different weight? Also, will the player be allowed to load his torpedo bombs with bombs like the IJN has done in the Attack on Pearl Harbor or Battle of Midway? There are AP and HE types of bombs (of various weights ranging from 100 lbs to at least 4000 lbs IIRC) with different penetration and damage effects; and yes, torpedo planes can carry bombs at times. Thanks for your reply William! May I ask several new questions about aerial torpedoes? 1. Will the performance of an aerial torpedo be improved as new technology got researched or as for a "heavy" torpedo or a "medium" torpedo, the performance is always fixed? 2. Will the spec of an aerial torpedo be displayed to the player(e.g. the speed@range spec in the RTW1)? It would be even better if the type of charge(TPX, TNT, etc.) ,warhead weight and fuse type(magnetic/direct hit) are displayed in the spec as well. I would really like to know what is sinking my enemy's ships.
|
|
|
Post by admiralhood on Dec 28, 2018 16:14:18 GMT -6
That at the moment is also on our to-do list, though that is all I can be sure about at the moment. It did specifically come up however! Hi Garrison, Would you mind explain a little bit to me what do you mean by "It did specifically come up however"? Do you mean that at this moment the user is already able to tell if a aircraft is a biplane or a monoplane?
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Dec 28, 2018 16:58:31 GMT -6
We had discussions about the merits of that addition, and debated its relative prioritization in regards to everything else that needs to be done. At present there is no indication as to the type of power plant or air-frame an aircraft has.
|
|
|
Post by bcoopactual on Dec 28, 2018 21:23:10 GMT -6
It may be too detailed for the scope of RTW but I think just as important as an aerial torpedo's speed and warhead is its launch envelope (i.e. the speed and altitude it can be dropped at and reliably run towards the target). Modifications made to American Mark 13 torpedoes by adding discardable, shock-absorbing wooden "pickle barrel" nose and tail shroud pieces greatly increased the speed and altitude that the fish could be dropped at; improving the survivability of plane and aircrew. The torpedoes went from having to be dropped at 50 ft and 110 knots or less at the beginning of WW2 to being able to be dropped from 2,400 ft and 410 knots by the end of their service. That makes a huge difference to the survivability of the torpedo planes (except maybe the TBD Devastator, nothing could save those flying coffins) as well as to the accuracy and reliability of the weapon itself. Other nations like Japan had programs as well that increased the speed and/or altitude that their torpedoes could be dropped. Japan famously included the wooden tail pieces for the attack on Pearl Harbor due to the shallow water of the harbor but most of their efforts in improving the launch envelope (which was never as restricted as the original envelope for the American Mark 13) seemed to have focused on improving the ruggedness and strength of the torpedo itself rather than adding shrouds and such for slowing down the torpedo in flight and for shock absorption. Not that RTW2 needs separate tech trees for various nations just pointing out that the concept wasn't limited to just the USA. I'm not sure if specific launch envelopes for torpedos are modeled but if they are in some fashion then I would like to see the tech tree for aerial weapons allow for increasing that envelope so that torpedo planes don't have to fly as low and slow over time to achieve hits.
|
|
AiryW
Full Member
Posts: 183
|
Post by AiryW on Dec 31, 2018 16:37:37 GMT -6
I'm not sure if specific launch envelopes for torpedos are modeled but if they are in some fashion then I would like to see the tech tree for aerial weapons allow for increasing that envelope so that torpedo planes don't have to fly as low and slow over time to achieve hits. It could perhaps be folded into the tactics field of research.
|
|
|
Post by admiralhood on Jan 3, 2019 10:28:19 GMT -6
First of all, Happy holidays to my fellow admirals and especially to the RTW2 developing team! I am suddenly curious about the types of bombs that could be used by aircraft in the RTW2 game. Will a player be enabled to choose what he want to load his bombers with (AP bombs or HE bombs), or, there is only one type of bomb with different weight? Also, will the player be allowed to load his torpedo bombs with bombs like the IJN has done in the Attack on Pearl Harbor or Battle of Midway? There are AP and HE types of bombs (of various weights ranging from 100 lbs to at least 4000 lbs IIRC) with different penetration and damage effects; and yes, torpedo planes can carry bombs at times. Hi William, As for a carrier, is the amount of aerial ammunition(number of bombs, torpedoes and rockets) limited or is it regarded to be infinite?
|
|
|
Post by williammiller on Jan 3, 2019 12:20:53 GMT -6
There are AP and HE types of bombs (of various weights ranging from 100 lbs to at least 4000 lbs IIRC) with different penetration and damage effects; and yes, torpedo planes can carry bombs at times. Hi William, As for a carrier, is the amount of aerial ammunition(number of bombs, torpedoes and rockets) limited or is it regarded to be infinite? That area is an aspect under current consideration for carrier ops, the expectation is you will not be able to field an 'infinite' number of weapons.
|
|