Ship Board Float Planes

[garychildress]

First off, I am so glad to see Fredrik back at it with another installment of RTW! Looking forward to getting it when it comes out!


I'm guessing/hoping there will be ship-board float planes incorporated into the ship design editor for cruisers and capital ships? And if so, will there be any tangible tactical benefits for designing at least some of your cruisers with float planes (or else tactical penalties for not doing so)? The reason I ask is that if there are no real game incentives to having float planes on some of your ships in the game (but not necessarily all), then it could sort of become a game exploit that you save some weight and funding by not incorporating them in ANY of your ship designs (which would be rather unrealistic for any of the major powers of the time and technology of the period). AND what would/could the incentive be for float planes? Would you be able to see enemy ships beyond the range of your lookouts in that case--over the horizon and maybe even many tens of miles beyond? Or how would float plane scouts best manifest themselves in game mechanics?

[garychildress]

Also, considering there were ships of the period with varying numbers of scout planes on them, anywhere from 1 to 6 or so, should/would there be a cost/benefit dilemma in the ship design editor for designing a ship with either more or less float planes on it?

[abclark]

I believe I’ve heard it mentioned (although I remember nothing official) that they would mostly benefit raiders and raider hunters. There’s the relatively obvious improvement to scouting ability that would allow both categories of ships to better find targets.

As far as using floatplanes to spot shellfire I do remember Fredrik saying it wouldn’t be added. IMO, there’s about a decade that they would be useful, but it’s probably something that’ll be added later at best.

[garychildress]

That's a good point, that they were only prevalent for about a decade. Still I remember at the first sea battle for Guadalcanal, Japanese float planes played a role in illuminating Allied ships during the night for Mikawa's task force. Didn't the delay in take off of one also cost the Japanese at the Battle of Midway (assuming the 1970s movie account was factual)?

I believe the main reason for the demise of the float plane was the ever increasing range of land based aircraft and the greater availability of land based airfields after WW2 (many built during the war). But in their hey day they seemed to be pretty essential.

[jwsmith26]

Floatplanes were the first aircraft to go to sea and remained in service through the end of WWII. They are handled in RTW2 with the same level of detail as wheeled aircraft. You can equip larger warships with floatplanes and you do so in the game for the same reasons they were equipped historically. 

[garychildress]

Jan 13, 2019 21:50:40 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Floatplanes were the first aircraft to go to sea and remained in service through the end of WWII. They are handled in RTW2 with the same level of detail as wheeled aircraft. You can equip larger warships with floatplanes and you do so in the game for the same reasons they were equipped historically. 

Great to hear! Thanks for the update!

[abclark]

Jan 13, 2019 21:50:40 GMT -6 jwsmith26 said:

Floatplanes were the first aircraft to go to sea and remained in service through the end of WWII. They are handled in RTW2 with the same level of detail as wheeled aircraft. You can equip larger warships with floatplanes and you do so in the game for the same reasons they were equipped historically. 

So is that going to include spotting long range gunfire? If the stance on that has changed, great. If not, it is kind of a niche thing that was never tested in actual combat.

[oldpop2000]

Catapult-launched aircraft were used for spotting for gunnery, scouting for the fleet and in the case of convoys, Catapult-Aided merchantmen used for convoy protection in the case of aircraft attacks. They could also be used for the delivery of important personnel, transfer of personnel and the movement of supplies. They could also be used for bombing but that was never successful. They were good at inner patrols for ASW. The problems were easy to figure out. The greatest danger was fire. Avgas is extremely flammable and the fumes will explode. At Pearl Harbor, the West Virginia's stern was covered with fire due to the presence of the OS2U Kingfishers on the X turret which when torpedoed rolled to port and ignited. The whole stern caught fire. This is the same danger in a surface battle or air attack. The US Navy always used stern catapults for this reason. It was the black powder blanks on board the Arizona which exploded from the bomb hit and ignited the 14 inch magazine. 

Helicopters ended the career of catapult-launched seaplanes.

[garychildress]

I mean, worse case scenario if float planes are not represented directly in the game via the ship designer and present in the ship stats window, then I suppose it could always be assumed that they are in the mix somewhere along the line. Maybe add them as a general "technological breakthrough" that improves fleet accuracy at longer ranges and extends visibility as soon as the country "discovers" it or something. I don't know. I guess I don't want to suggest adding too many variables to things which would over complicate the game. (One of the things I loved about RTW1 was its relative simplicity--allowing the player to focus more on ship design--abstraction of land fighting for example, and other things that wouldn't really lend much to the game except to make it more tedious to play.) I don't know if float planes would create more trouble than they are worth.

[dorn]

Jan 13, 2019 19:43:36 GMT -6 abclark said:

I believe I’ve heard it mentioned (although I remember nothing official) that they would mostly benefit raiders and raider hunters. There’s the relatively obvious improvement to scouting ability that would allow both categories of ships to better find targets.

As far as using floatplanes to spot shellfire I do remember Fredrik saying it wouldn’t be added. IMO, there’s about a decade that they would be useful, but it’s probably something that’ll be added later at best.

Spotting shellfires by floatplanes was used at start of WW2 by RN and quite succesfully. However it was minor (HMS Warspite in Narvik and I am not sure if in the Mediterranean).

However scoutplanes where used scout. Japanese did it by this way to spare carriers planes. British use it too, mainly in the Mediterranean with high quality reports - Italians admirals mentioned how RN has developed it on high level.

[garrisonchisholm]

In the current game in testing, float planes are used for search. Ships with catapults do not need to stop to launch them, and they provide scouting reports the same as an unseen merchant or one of your subs would in RTW1.

Later float-planes have stats for carrying limited armament (lt bombs or depth charges), though this is not yet implemented, and it is in discussion to have them contribute to ASW patrol if so ordered.

[oldpop2000]

Jan 14, 2019 9:14:35 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

In the current game in testing, float planes are used for search. Ships with catapults do not need to stop to launch them, and they provide scouting reports the same as an unseen merchant or one of your subs would in RTW1.

Later float-planes have stats for carrying limited armament (lt bombs or depth charges), though this is not yet implemented, and it is in discussion to have them contribute to ASW patrol if so ordered.

There were catapult destroyers, like the USS Hutchins, Pringle, Stanly, Stevens, Halford and Leutze. The recovery was the real problem and many pilots and crews were lost in heavy seas. Here is a British instructional video on launching a floatplane 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dmNyts7f1w

US Navy landing of a floatplane - www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab77niFfBTM

[Fredrik W]

There will be floatplanes, you can add a varying amount of them, and yes, they do provide benefits. Both abstractly in raider hunting but also tactical scouting in battles.

[oldpop2000]

Jan 14, 2019 15:27:14 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

There will be floatplanes, you can add a varying amount of them, and yes, they do provide benefits. Both abstractly in raider hunting but also tactical scouting in battles.

Great, more targets for my fighters. It will be a target rich environment. Yes!!

[garychildress]

Jan 14, 2019 15:27:14 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

There will be floatplanes, you can add a varying amount of them, and yes, they do provide benefits. Both abstractly in raider hunting but also tactical scouting in battles.

Very cool! I can't wait! I blew the dust off my old copy of RTW last night in anticipation and am in the middle of a campaign as Japan right now (I still binge on it occasionally). Fun times! Looking forward to carriers!