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Post by cwemyss on Jan 25, 2019 11:55:53 GMT -6
Has anyone tried a game without building B/BB's? I'm about to start one, I figured France was an appropriate choice. Anyone have tips, tricks, or just plain "don't bother"?
My plan is to build a pile of heavy CAs and good CLs at game start, supported by lots of DDs and eventually subs. When BCs become available I'll start building those in place of CAs, but I'm going to try to avoid any pre-dreds or BBs.
I'm assuming there will be political pressure to build battleships... so at some point I'll probably be forced by prestige or unrest or something to build a few. Those that I do build will be the best I can design at the time.
This may turn into a semi-AAR... I play at a rate of about 10 game years per real-world month, so it might be a bit aggravating for folks.
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Post by boomboomf22 on Jan 25, 2019 15:07:00 GMT -6
It will be difficult. I recommend having a few predreads at game start as otherwise you will get events that will tank your prestige, something you can ill afford in the early game.
Interestingly having a few battleships was an element of the actual young school, with the intent to force the enemy to try to engage them allowing for their destruction by the superior light forces espoused by the doctrine.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Jan 25, 2019 15:54:07 GMT -6
actually i'v done that a fair amount in the past with smaller countries - build heavy CA's instead of B's, then switch exclusively to BC's for the rest of the game
if you build a B with 10" guns the game calls it a CA, but perhaps not when you build your initial fleet
expect your BCs to get chewed up a bit later when fire control gets sharper, but if you keep building them they'r like shark teeth - one falls out and another comes in to take it's place
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 25, 2019 16:24:54 GMT -6
Has anyone tried a game without building B/BB's? I'm about to start one, I figured France was an appropriate choice. Anyone have tips, tricks, or just plain "don't bother"? My plan is to build a pile of heavy CAs and good CLs at game start, supported by lots of DDs and eventually subs. When BCs become available I'll start building those in place of CAs, but I'm going to try to avoid any pre-dreds or BBs. I'm assuming there will be political pressure to build battleships... so at some point I'll probably be forced by prestige or unrest or something to build a few. Those that I do build will be the best I can design at the time. This may turn into a semi-AAR... I play at a rate of about 10 game years per real-world month, so it might be a bit aggravating for folks. I've played Japan a couple of times without armored cruisers and battleships. You just have to be as careful as you can and avoid major engagements. You have to play a guerre de course. It's best to emphasize submarines and build as many as possible. I won the game every time so it can be done with prudence. He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.
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Post by akosjaccik on Jan 25, 2019 16:37:58 GMT -6
As A-H, small&historical I had the pleasure to opt for BCs without any dreadnoughts once, and I have fond memories of that instance, though I did not ditch the early battleships, so my transition looked rather like B -> BC. In the late game I went for a reliable pack of standardized battelcruisers and a good amount of expensive and well-equipped destroyers / destroyer leaders without anything else really (flk speed 32 kts for both), apart from subs and the occassional AMCs - and it turned out excellent. As my entire doctrine was based on battlecruiser warfare, I had nothing to fear of anything short of a dreadnought, and those were still dealt with one after the other, and the loss of a capital ship here or there was "calculated" in the system. I do stress thought that this was played with a small nation, small size and small resources, focusing only on the Mediterranean.
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Post by director on Jan 26, 2019 1:57:35 GMT -6
One work-around is to build massive numbers of raiders during wartime and submarines during peacetime. That way you can attempt to degrade your enemy's morale while you hunt for a way to stay reasonably close in victory conditions.
The game is going to generate a lot of cruiser-type missions, so I would advise you to build impressive light cruisers. Armored cruisers, after around 1918, are rarely called on. When I build them, I staff my overseas colonies with them. Battlecruisers can be a good investment as long as you can avoid action with enemy battleships, but you will need a number of destroyers with heavy gun power and 8(+) torpedo tubes.
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Post by dorn on Jan 26, 2019 2:30:59 GMT -6
One work-around is to build massive numbers of raiders during wartime and submarines during peacetime. That way you can attempt to degrade your enemy's morale while you hunt for a way to stay reasonably close in victory conditions. The game is going to generate a lot of cruiser-type missions, so I would advise you to build impressive light cruisers. Armored cruisers, after around 1918, are rarely called on. When I build them, I staff my overseas colonies with them. Battlecruisers can be a good investment as long as you can avoid action with enemy battleships, but you will need a number of destroyers with heavy gun power and 8(+) torpedo tubes. I build 4000 tons light cruisers and they are usually quite good and with 15 to 17 M costs quite cheaper than 6000 tons cruisers. Building 6000 tons cruisers you are not going to build something much better, usually one knot faster and half inch better belt armor which is not worth about 50 % increase of costs. And numbers are important As it increase chance that you get overhelming numbers of them in generated scenarios. Up to your ability to build light cruiser with all centerline turrets and with B and V turrets, the cruiser progress is signaficant. After that up to double turrets for CL it is more about efficiency and thus speed for the allowed costs.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 7:26:41 GMT -6
I tend toward 7-8k CLs with as many 6" guns as I can cram onboard. That shouldn't be a problem. :-)
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Post by director on Jan 26, 2019 13:14:52 GMT -6
cwemyss - I see that we think alike. A big CL can be faster and more-heavily-armed. I can usually depend on one of my big CLs being able to sink 2 AI-designed CLs, so numbers do not become such a factor. A 5"(+1) gun, I found, has much the same penetration and range performance as a standard 6", especially in the early years, and the lesser weight of the mount permits more to be fitted (or the same battery, speed and protection to be carried on less displacement). I have had success with a cruiser design built around a 4" gun (18 in 6x3 mounts if I remember). They were small, fast and easily killed if the enemy held the range open. But if the range closed, it was like taking a machine-gun to a car; no CL can take 5 to 15 4" hits a turn and live. I would highly recommend the concept to players fighting in areas prone to fog, rain and night actions. I saw those as an interesting experiment, not a primary design.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 13:46:19 GMT -6
Here we go... so begins the career of Amiral Fromage.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 13:53:09 GMT -6
I'll run through my current designs. I'm not married to any of these, and I'm open to suggestions. I haven't played as France before, though the early ships look comparable (le garbage) to what's available to other countries.
First, the bait. I intend to build 2 of these, and move them between the Med and Northern Europe depending on who I'm fighting.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 13:55:42 GMT -6
The hammers... a total of 9 CA's planned, split between two classes. The high-low mix allows me to get an extra hull in the water.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 13:57:28 GMT -6
The Light Cruisers. Sfax class is intended as a fleet scout (6 planned) and Tage (4 of them) for raiding and patrol duties.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 13:59:46 GMT -6
The destroyers, in a 'torpedo' and a 'gun' class, total of 14 planned. I don't expect these to live long... life as a destroyerman in my navy tends to be short and ugly.
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Post by cwemyss on Jan 26, 2019 14:01:24 GMT -6
And to round out the fleet (and start toward the CP flood I tend to use once opponents have submarines)... the Patrouilleur class MS.
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