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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 16:44:32 GMT -6
Perfect! Thank you both for the news. Yeah, I probably meant angled decks, but Im not really into correct english nomenclature, so I have to use my own words to describe those things. Now it would be really interesting to know how much the carriers will be updatable. It would be fantastic to see old Au-Hu battlecruisers in service in 1950 as a 5-times updated carriers  (and yeah, I know how bad is that idea)... |
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Post by desdinova on Jan 30, 2019 16:45:06 GMT -6
Are helicopters included? It looks like the first naval helicopters appeared in the late 40s.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Jan 30, 2019 17:17:05 GMT -6
Perfect! Thank you both for the news. Yeah, I probably meant angled decks, but Im not really into correct english nomenclature, so I have to use my own words to describe those things. Now it would be really interesting to know how much the carriers will be updatable. It would be fantastic to see old Au-Hu battlecruisers in service in 1950 as a 5-times updated carriers (and yeah, I know how bad is that idea)... Here ya go. The French ship Devastation, a Gaulois class BB commissioned in 1911, still contributing in 1944. As you can see by the battle stars, the Devastation has been busy. She came to me as part of my legacy fleet in a 1920 start game and she was a dog even then. Nevertheless, I kept her around because I was desperately short on capital ships. At one point I considered giving the class (there are still 3 afloat) a major overhaul to bring the speed up to 25 kts but I've never been able to justify the cost. Nevertheless the Devastation has undergone 2 lesser refits and has put plenty of 12" rounds into the enemy's sides (though I doubt she's hit a single enemy deck  ). I can't say that any in the class have proven decisive in a battle but they've all added welcome firepower from a secondary position where they can fire without receiving too much enemy counter-fire.   I see after re-reading your post that you were referring to carrier conversions. So let me introduce CV Redoubtable, an old Gaulois class BB (same class as the Devastation above) that I converted into a CVL around 1923. She has undergone 2 refits including the major conversion into a carrier. As a CVL she carried 31 planes, 8 4" DP main guns and 8 3" AA guns. She was reclassified as a small CV in 1941 after adding an additional 4 planes and slightly improving her arms. She's survived in two major battles including one in which she took a 1,600 lb. bomb from an Italian dive bomber. The Redoubtable (her original name) has outlived 9 contemporary or later carriers, including my two first fleet carriers that went down to a mine and submarine torpedoes. She is the only carrier I have remaining from those early 20's conversions and she's still a valuable asset despite her small air complement and creaking speed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 18:57:05 GMT -6
Nice, thank you for the news, its much appreciated! Sorry, but I must also laugh. CV with 26kts top speed? I would consider keeping a pair of the heavy guns on Redoutable, as shooting the planes to the air by this guns seems to be the only way how to get some planes airbourne from such ship But considering the fact that this is almost perfect HMS Dreadnought under French flag, its amazing that it appeared on the legacy ship list, as by 1920 it was probably somehow "after warranty". Do you think that carrier conversions can be easier (cheaper) done on BBs, or BCs? |
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Post by aeson on Jan 30, 2019 19:16:54 GMT -6
She came to me as part of my legacy fleet in a 1920 start game and she was a dog even then. Nevertheless, I kept her around because I was desperately short on capital ships. Could be worse; in a more historically-accurate legacy fleet you'd've had something like the Dantons instead of a passable early dreadnought.
With regards to Redoubtable, I almost feel like 26 knots and 31-35 aircraft is a bit much for an old 18,700t 21kn battleship, especially while maintaining a 9.5" armor belt, though possibly the conversion was a bit more extensive and the modernizations a bit more thorough than those given to the historical Eagle and Bearn.
Depending on how extensively you can rebuild ships during a conversion, a carrier converted from an old battlecruiser might not be that bad. It'd at least be reasonably fast to start with, and going by Courageous and Glorious it'd probably be able to carry around fifty aircraft (possibly more, if, unlike Courageous and Glorious, it's closer to 30,000 tons than 20,000), which isn't terrible. If you can shell out for a really extensive conversion, you might even be able to end up with something more like a Lexington or an Akagi, though I grant that those had the advantage of being fairly incomplete when converted.
The Japanese Hiyo and Junyo were only good for about 25 knots, the British Eagle was only good for 24 knots, and the French Bearn was only good for about 21 knots. All of these were in service in the Second World War, and Hiyo, Junyo, and Eagle were used for combat operations
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 19:29:38 GMT -6
Yeah, Eagle was really slow, but it never carried anything newer than biplanes, didnt it?
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Post by aeson on Jan 30, 2019 19:49:54 GMT -6
Yeah, Eagle was really slow, but it never carried anything newer than biplanes, didnt it? I don't know how accurate it is, but Wikipedia's article says that Eagle operated Fulmars from early 1941 and Sea Hurricanes from early 1942. Eagle was also used to launch Malta-bound Spitfires a couple of times. |
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Post by jeb94 on Jan 30, 2019 20:27:46 GMT -6
USS Long Island CVE-1. Hangar capacity of 16 aircraft with a flight deck capacity of around 46. Flight deck length was 404 feet. Top speed was 16.5 knots. She could operate Wildcats and SBDs. The following Bogue class could hit speeds of 18 knots. They had a flight deck that was 439 feet long and typically operated 12 Wildcats and 9 Avengers in US service or a mix of Seafires and Swordfish in Royal Navy service.
Keep in mind both classes displaced less than 10000 tons. These are the carrier equivalent to AMCs but they demonstrate that you can do quite a bit with a small, slow carrier.
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Post by jwsmith26 on Jan 30, 2019 22:25:46 GMT -6
Nice, thank you for the news, its much appreciated! Sorry, but I must also laugh. CV with 26kts top speed? I would consider keeping a pair of the heavy guns on Redoutable, as shooting the planes to the air by this guns seems to be the only way how to get some planes airbourne from such ship But considering the fact that this is almost perfect HMS Dreadnought under French flag, its amazing that it appeared on the legacy ship list, as by 1920 it was probably somehow "after warranty". Do you think that carrier conversions can be easier (cheaper) done on BBs, or BCs? You have to remember my battleline was a blistering fast 21 knots. 26 was as fast as the hull form would take and was reasonable for the time of conversion. Most of my BCs were the same speed. At the time I was looking for an alternative use for the Gaulois class because both the Italians and British had a number of 30 kt BCs with 16" guns and heavier armor than the Gaulois class. A fight against those modern ships was not going to be close. I was the only nation with carriers at the time though that only lasted a year or so. Still, any aircraft were valuable at sea. It was the Redoubtable's bad luck to stay afloat long enough that her speed became laughable. It's almost always easier to convert a BC. Speed is expensive and in a conversion it's much better if you start with a fast ship so can spend your tonnage on aircraft capacity. |
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Post by dorn on Jan 31, 2019 3:14:00 GMT -6
Perfect! Thank you both for the news. Yeah, I probably meant angled decks, but Im not really into correct english nomenclature, so I have to use my own words to describe those things. Now it would be really interesting to know how much the carriers will be updatable. It would be fantastic to see old Au-Hu battlecruisers in service in 1950 as a 5-times updated carriers (and yeah, I know how bad is that idea)... Here ya go. The French ship Devastation, a Gaulois class BB commissioned in 1911, still contributing in 1944. As you can see by the battle stars, the Devastation has been busy. She came to me as part of my legacy fleet in a 1920 start game and she was a dog even then. Nevertheless, I kept her around because I was desperately short on capital ships. At one point I considered giving the class (there are still 3 afloat) a major overhaul to bring the speed up to 25 kts but I've never been able to justify the cost. Nevertheless the Devastation has undergone 2 lesser refits and has put plenty of 12" rounds into the enemy's sides (though I doubt she's hit a single enemy deck ). I can't say that any in the class have proven decisive in a battle but they've all added welcome firepower from a secondary position where they can fire without receiving too much enemy counter-fire. I see after re-reading your post that you were referring to carrier conversions. So let me introduce CV Redoubtable, an old Gaulois class BB (same class as the Devastation above) that I converted into a CVL around 1923. She has undergone 2 refits including the major conversion into a carrier. As a CVL she carried 31 planes, 8 4" DP main guns and 8 3" AA guns. She was reclassified as a small CV in 1941 after adding an additional 4 planes and slightly improving her arms. She's survived in two major battles including one in which she took a 1,600 lb. bomb from an Italian dive bomber. The Redoubtable (her original name) has outlived 9 contemporary or later carriers, including my two first fleet carriers that went down to a mine and submarine torpedoes. She is the only carrier I have remaining from those early 20's conversions and she's still a valuable asset despite her small air complement and creaking speed. How does work deck amor in conversions? Does the game take into considaration the different approach of deck armor on carriers (deck vs. hangar)? How much damage can deck hits do? I agree with aeson, having 31 planes on 18kt ship is quite a lot if you look how much armor ship has. |
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 31, 2019 11:32:22 GMT -6
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Post by tbr on Jan 31, 2019 12:54:45 GMT -6
There is also the "parallel deck" approach which the RN planned for the never built CVA-01 design, this is essntiatially an only very slightly (2.5°) angled landing lane next to a full length "helicopter/parking/elevator/taxiing" lane with both "lanes" having a launch catapult:
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(and yeah, I know how bad is that idea)...
). I can't say that any in the class have proven decisive in a battle but they've all added welcome firepower from a secondary position where they can fire without receiving too much enemy counter-fire. 
