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Post by garychildress on Jan 26, 2019 4:27:28 GMT -6
I know this is likely too late to bring this up and probably outside the scope of the game, however, a major factor in ship production is slip availability. Ships running behind schedule in launch would hold up ships that were planned on being laid down and major overhauls that required ships to be dry docked also prevented new construction at times. The two pics below show the lengths of the largest shipyard slips in Japan around the time leading up to WW2 and the ships that were constructed in them. It would be an interesting feature in the game for the player to have to juggle laying down ships among a set number of available shipyard slips of different sizes. But, yes, I know it's most likely too late to bring up.
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Post by ursamaior on Jan 26, 2019 6:36:30 GMT -6
Slipway and swmimming dock restrictions as well as armor plate and heavy guns avaibility issues.
Maybe in RtW3?
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Post by alexbrunius on Jan 28, 2019 1:12:37 GMT -6
I think even a very simplified mechanic of this to get the choice between a few large slips or many smaller ones could add alot to the game.
Maybe a "Slip number" next to max size which takes longer to expand and limits the number of B, BB, BC or CV that can be laid down could be one way to do it.
Edit: That could also make the private shipyard expansion events a bit more interesting ( they could sometimes give an additional slipway ) and if you queue up more capital ships than you got capacity they just get status "waiting for slipway" with minimal upkeep cost until one becomes available.
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Post by dorn on Jan 28, 2019 3:48:14 GMT -6
I think even a very simplified mechanic of this to get the choice between a few large slips or many smaller ones could add alot to the game. Maybe a "Slip number" next to max size which takes longer to expand and limits the number of B, BB, BC or CV that can be laid down could be one way to do it. Edit: That could also make the private shipyard expansion events a bit more interesting ( they could sometimes give an additional slipway ) and if you queue up more capital ships than you got capacity they just get status "waiting for slipway" with minimal upkeep cost until one becomes available. It could be interesting however I think it will take time and focus of player much more than importance of this detail in game. You will start to manage details not whole picture.
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Post by dizzy on Jan 28, 2019 5:59:40 GMT -6
While I love detail and endless tinkering, this idea sounds cool as long as it fits in with the abstract way ships are built without adding things that slow the pace of the game. For example, adding ships to foreign service so you dont manually have to count up what forces are where is an example of automation that takes care of the subtleties of needing to protect your colonies with enough force without me having to micromanage it. All that said, I love the idea of slip size... I think having carrier, BB, C and DD slip sizes are a great idea. That'd add a WHOLE lotta playtesting, but knowing you could capture a dock that has a slip size for a ship you need to build, that's awesome. Ships could be built on location, and upgrading shipbuilding could be more detailed. Good idea.
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Post by alexbrunius on Jan 28, 2019 7:14:26 GMT -6
While I love detail and endless tinkering, this idea sounds cool as long as it fits in with the abstract way ships are built without adding things that slow the pace of the game. For example, adding ships to foreign service so you dont manually have to count up what forces are where is an example of automation that takes care of the subtleties of needing to protect your colonies with enough force without me having to micromanage it. All that said, I love the idea of slip size... I think having carrier, BB, C and DD slip sizes are a great idea. That'd add a WHOLE lotta playtesting, but knowing you could capture a dock that has a slip size for a ship you need to build, that's awesome. Ships could be built on location, and upgrading shipbuilding could be more detailed. Good idea. I don't think it make sense to have separate Carrier, BB, C and DD slip sizes. IRL any ship could be built in a larger slip if needed, and Carriers / BB often would be built in identical slips. Conceptually I can think of three different ways to implement this mechanic with varying degrees of complexity: Simple:Instead of just max size as current also have amount of capital ship slips ( ignore smaller ships ), simplified so that all slips are considered to be of identical size which is your max size. You can either expand size or number of slips. In between:Same as the simple for capital ship but we add a 3:ed value, total tonnage capacity, which restricts also how much total tonnage of ships can be laid down ( including screens ). All 3 values can be expanded. Complex detail:You can have multiple shipyards that each have a separate maximum size and a number of slips, there is a delay to retool them to build a different class. This is similar to how Shipyards work in Aurora 4x.
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Post by aetreus on Jan 28, 2019 12:41:23 GMT -6
I think it'd be possible to make a shipyards system that was non-micromanaging but still had the full complexity of "you can build this many ships of this tonnage, and so many more of this other tonnage." Basically, track docks/slips individually, but the game checks program side if you have enough yards(filling the smallest yard it can with a ship) when you try and build a new ship. So if you have 3 yards for 40k tons, and 6 yards for 15k tons, and are building 2 35k ton battleships and 7 14k ton cruisers, all your yards are full. If you wanted to build another battleship, you'd need to finish or cancel something.
Yard expansion would then take a few more clicks than at present, but not to a great degree(less than air groups seem likely to, and less than moving ships now takes). Probably either an option to expand an existing facility, or build a whole new one at a given size.
The main thing is of course it's probably too late to consider adding a new feature to RTW2. It's the sort of feature that would fit the game and be a nice extra touch(what ships do I want more of in the distant future?), but isn't that important.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Jan 28, 2019 12:50:59 GMT -6
I cannot speak for William and Fredrik, but I feel rather confident that given the issues we are still wrestling with the admitably abstracted mechanic "Dock Size Tonnage Increase" is highly likely to remain status quo for RTW2. It seems to me that if a modder uses the finished product for a while and would like this extra detail, this might be fertile ground for their inventiveness.
In theory though this notion does not lack interest. Given how many times I have played the game, I would likely try such a syatem if it were an option.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Jan 28, 2019 14:32:25 GMT -6
this would be a cool feature, but anything that requires more than a small tweak to the current engine is likely better off in a "RtW2 DLC" feature request thread - i'd pay $15-$20 for a DLC that had something like that included
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Post by dizzy on Jan 28, 2019 20:09:14 GMT -6
I agree with the above where it needs to be made simple/easy, and having a mechanic for both Capital ship slips and slips for everything else would be amazing. Perhaps instead of adding 'tonnage' for abstractly handling all ship types, you were given an alternative to 'add' another capital ship slot instead?
I think it'd be hard to do... Because a BB in 1910 is the size of a cruiser in 1925. The system works well enough now, but I'd love to see some limitations on how many BB's or fleet carriers you can build at once and this is a good idea to attempt to figure it out.
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Post by director on Jan 28, 2019 20:14:35 GMT -6
If you are going to get into that, you need to add a mechanism whereby slots (slips) go away if not used. So a lack of capital ship expenditure would, as happened historically from 1918-1935 or so, cause a shortfall in capacity. Building new slips should take time, also - as increasing overall tonnage limit does now.
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Post by garychildress on Jan 28, 2019 22:15:36 GMT -6
this would be a cool feature, but anything that requires more than a small tweak to the current engine is likely better off in a " RtW2 DLC" feature request thread - i'd pay $15-$20 for a DLC that had something like that included Fredrik supported RTW well and added new features at times, continually improving the game even after its official release and sale. The very best game developers do stuff like that. Perhaps down the line for RTW2--if he gets the time and inclination, something like slip availability and limits could be added. Even if not, RTW is still a great game. Just an idea that crossed my mind. I too would easily pay $20 for a good DLC that added content to the game later on.
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Post by ursamaior on Jan 28, 2019 23:52:15 GMT -6
this would be a cool feature, but anything that requires more than a small tweak to the current engine is likely better off in a " RtW2 DLC" feature request thread - i'd pay $15-$20 for a DLC that had something like that included Fredrik supported RTW well and added new features at times, continually improving the game even after its official release and sale. The very best game developers do stuff like that. Perhaps down the line for RTW2--if he gets the time and inclination, something like slip availability and limits could be added. Even if not, RTW is still a great game. Just an idea that crossed my mind. I too would easily pay $20 for a good DLC that added content to the game later on. Second to that. I am considering a march of DLCs forum .
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Post by admiralhood on Jan 29, 2019 23:41:41 GMT -6
This is something has been in my mind for a long time. A capacity limitation is reasonable and a player should not be allowed to put 10 Iowa and 16 Essex in the building list simultaneously unless he has spendee enough resources to build new shipyards.
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Post by sleventyfive on Jan 30, 2019 11:27:21 GMT -6
I like Alexbrunius' 'simple' idea. Maybe something like X# Capital Slips where a 'Capital slip' is is >50% Total Capacity? So for example "16,000 tons, 8 Capital Slips" means you could build 8 ships of 8,000t or greater and (effectively) infinite numbers <8,000t.
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