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Post by dizzy on Feb 3, 2019 12:56:08 GMT -6
Ha! And then they went to war with me!
It's 1944 and I need 13 more possessions to control the world. Italy has 3, the other 10 belong to Japan and GB. I dont think I'll be able to conquer everything in time. We will see.
Ever had 2 nations agree to an alliance against you then declare war? Dirty Japs also sneak attacked me in Manilla. Payback's gonna hurt.
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Post by ddg on Feb 3, 2019 16:18:57 GMT -6
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Post by dizzy on Feb 3, 2019 17:31:44 GMT -6
I suppose when I'm RPing I should say so? I was. Sorry. Playing the Japanese, which are my favs I call the Americans 'Imperialist Swine'. I'm an American. Just a RP thing. Sensitive need not be offended at history.
On that note, you didn't answer my question. But I'll comment on your tangent. I was reading where these two U.S. aviators, maybe from a dive or torpedo bomber plane got splashed during the Battle of Midway. A Japanese cruiser picked them up. Japanese were so mad, they tied weights around their legs and pushed them overboard. Likewise, I was watching ww2 veteran interviews and one U.S. sailor recalled after a particularly nasty naval battle, that Japanese surviving sailors in the water were shot with machine guns. He said, "A good jap is a dead jap." Neither side liked the other. Both committed war crimes. So be real about it.
Revisionist history, tearing down war memorials and pretending things didn't happen so we dont 'offend' the sensitive are great ways to forget history and have all that evil repeat itself. In fact there's this game called Bomber Crew on Steam where you can choose African Americans as crew. Well, that's all nice and inclusive these days, but doing so covers up the animus of the segregation of blacks in America. It's a disservice to history and a slight to the struggle African Americans had to endure, and it black washes history. So just to be clear, be an advocate for history, not for political correctness.
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Post by bcoopactual on Feb 3, 2019 17:58:08 GMT -6
Most of the statement is a bunch of bollocks but this isn't the place to get into it.
Bottom line is the term is pejorative. There are members of the forum who are Japanese or of Japanese descent who shouldn't have to deal with seeing that on this forum in 2019.
No arguing it was a popular term in the past. Respectfully, let it stay there.
Hopefully having gotten that out of the way, yes, I've had countries ally together to contain my country's "aggression" after winning a few wars. I actually prefer that in most cases to them joining after the war is started because it doesn't reset the victory points like a nation joining part way through does.
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Post by ddg on Feb 3, 2019 18:34:08 GMT -6
Oh, believe me, I am well aware of the history here. My father was "evacuated"—the US government's term—from the West Coast as an infant. He spent the war in what we would call a concentration camp were that term not now so indelibly associated with the extermination camps of the Nazi regime. So spare me your appeal to history. The words you use matter to people today.
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Post by dizzy on Feb 3, 2019 18:48:47 GMT -6
There were many war crimes by Americans that didn't get prosecuted. I was kinda floored by this veteran openly saying with some satisfaction how Japanese sailors were gunned down like that helpless floating in the water. It was a little shocking. Sorry if I offended you. It wasn't my intent. Whatever side of the argument you are on, let it not be the word etymology for current political correctness. That's crap. We aren't any different today than yesterday.
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Post by bcoopactual on Feb 3, 2019 19:25:30 GMT -6
Your first statement is irrelevant and there is no argument. People should be free to use this forum without being subjected to stereotypical slurs towards their ethnic background regardless of historical usage. You should have already edited your first post to remove it.
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Post by dizzy on Feb 3, 2019 19:41:04 GMT -6
Subjected? No one was subjected. To subject someone to something you have to call someone something and that wasn't done. I disagree with your characterization. I'll just leave it at that.
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Post by ddg on Feb 3, 2019 20:21:59 GMT -6
The point I'm trying to make, here, is that this isn't an abstract issue. The choices you make hurt real, living people. They hurt me, someone you're interacting with on this very forum and, I like to think, a valued contributor to it. It's not a question of offense but of pain.
You can remind me people of the injustices of the past and of the present without using racial slurs. If you wouldn't use the n-word in discussing segregated African-American units of the US Army, or anti-Semitic slurs in discussing the Holocaust, well, this is no different. Language can be discussed without being employed.
Speaking for myself, I make certain allowances for use of the word "Jap." Veterans of the PTO get a pass. That doesn't mean it's right for them to say it, but they have their own trauma that I respect. Had you mocked up a period newspaper that used it in a headline, I would likely have accepted it. That use is materially different from what you did.
To reiterate: This is not politics. This is basic courtesy.
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Post by ieshima on Feb 3, 2019 20:39:47 GMT -6
Just to cut in, I highly suggest that you stop this thread now before the staff lock it and issue warnings.
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Post by williammiller on Feb 3, 2019 23:42:15 GMT -6
Believe me, I am *not* a "PC" guy, but we do need to be mindful of words we use, just out of consideration for others if nothing else.
I'm not going to say you can't use that word or even a particular word (well, unless its an obscenity or the like of course), but if a word or phrase causes issues with others then perhaps the 'nice' or best thing to do is to simply say "sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone" and carry on without the use of it.
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Post by dizzy on Feb 4, 2019 8:10:27 GMT -6
There's no need to lock. It's true the word can be offensive, and no one should ever be called that and no one was. We all agree. Shutting down dialogue because someone is offended at something isn't the right answer. I already said my intent was never to aimed at anyone, rather it was used in a RP historical context and some argue that still isn't okay, but I strongly disagree. It's okay to disagree. Nevertheless, I already said I was sorry if anyone got offended, and that was never my intent. It's also okay to tell someone you offended them, but not okay to force your PC will upon them.
It's okay to disagree with this, but if you're too PC to talk about history, or euphemisms of any sort that have been known to offend, then all you're doing is building walls. And that's probably not a good place to be. I'm willing to talk about why someone is offended by something I said, really why, but only as long as we are respectful and civil in our responses, as I am. This is the best approach to understanding. Otherwise, I'm willing to drop this issue.
Anyhoos, I'm wondering if anyone has had two nations team up in an alliance and declare war on you, that was in my OP. I was rather amused when that happened... Wondered what triggers were activated for that to occur. Imo, it didn't happen soon enough. I had already taken over most of the world and I think they were late to the party. I'm wondering if RTW2 could have a tension level modifier for when you start a new game? Kinda tweak the difficulty a little? Perhaps a runaway economy by a player could be averted if there were higher tensions when you obtain possessions.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2019 9:16:29 GMT -6
There's no need to lock. It's true the word can be offensive, and no one should ever be called that and no one was. We all agree. Shutting down dialogue because someone is offended at something isn't the right answer. I already said my intent was never to aimed at anyone, rather it was used in a RP historical context and some argue that still isn't okay, but I strongly disagree. It's okay to disagree. Nevertheless, I already said I was sorry if anyone got offended, and that was never my intent. It's also okay to tell someone you offended them, but not okay to force your PC will upon them. It's okay to disagree with this, but if you're too PC to talk about history, or euphemisms of any sort that have been known to offend, then all you're doing is building walls. And that's probably not a good place to be. I'm willing to talk about why someone is offended by something I said, really why, but only as long as we are respectful and civil in our responses, as I am. This is the best approach to understanding. Otherwise, I'm willing to drop this issue. Anyhoos, I'm wondering if anyone has had two nations team up in an alliance and declare war on you, that was in my OP. I was rather amused when that happened... Wondered what triggers were activated for that to occur. Imo, it didn't happen soon enough. I had already taken over most of the world and I think they were late to the party. I'm wondering if RTW2 could have a tension level modifier for when you start a new game? Kinda tweak the difficulty a little? Perhaps a runaway economy by a player could be averted if there were higher tensions when you obtain possessions. First of all, I am a firm believer in dialogue between peoples of different nationalities. We are now in a fully globalized world and must adapt. The past is the past. I believe in the idea that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. That having been said, I do not believe the names from the past for other nationalities is necessary to continue the dialogue. My dad suffered for over half a century from injuries suffered at Guadalcanal, but he never had a bad word for the Japanese nation and never used certain terminology when he did. I lost two high school buddies in Vietnam, but I have no ill will to the Vietnamese people and will not use certain terms for them. We must rise above the rest of the world. Here endeth the lesson. Now, about the game, I have had France and England gang up on me, but I am the type that avoids fleet engagement and uses guerre de course as a main strategy. It seems to work well for me. Try to find the weakness of one or the other and strike at that weakness. You can be assured that for Italy and A-H it economics and political stability, go after that.
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Post by dizzy on Feb 4, 2019 9:52:54 GMT -6
How do you avoid fleet engagement? As Italy, I got the edge early and sunk everything the British and French threw at me right up until the early thirties, when my economy could no longer sustain the type of advanced ship replenishment I needed to stay competitive and they wiped the floor with me completely. GB sent in 16 BB's in the Mediterranean and stomped me so good, that by this mid forties, all I had were Destroyers. So how do you avoid fleet entanglements and play to a smaller nations strengths and stick to, I'll call what you said, pirating, as I'm fonder of that term.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 4, 2019 10:08:32 GMT -6
How do you avoid fleet engagement? As Italy, I got the edge early and sunk everything the British and French threw at me right up until the early thirties, when my economy could no longer sustain the type of advanced ship replenishment I needed to stay competitive and they wiped the floor with me completely. GB sent in 16 BB's in the Mediterranean and stomped me so good, that by this mid forties, all I had were Destroyers. So how do you avoid fleet entanglements and play to a smaller nations strengths and stick to, I'll call what you said, pirating, as I'm fonder of that term. Look for a light cruiser sailing alone. In the days before carriers, light cruisers were used as scout cruisers ahead of the fleet. If you see this ship, head towards and if it turns away, there is a fleet behind it. Better still, if you see this cruiser, turn, go to flank speed and run away with your fleet. Head towards the coast, and try not to get cornered. If the scenario is a fleet engagement, this will work. If it is a coastal attack, beware because sometimes the fleet is still behind, doing the coastal attacks. This is a computer program, it will do the same thing every time.
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