|
Post by Adseria on Mar 3, 2019 15:38:32 GMT -6
I was struggling to explain my question coherently, so I'm going to use an example.
I'm playing a game, and I unlock my first radar, which for the purposes of this post, I will call "Mk I." I only have 2 ships ("Fred" and "George"). Fred is a larger ship, so he gets the first Mk I set, but before a second set is available for George, I unlock radar Mk II, which (obviously) is better. Would the first Mk II set be fitted on Fred or George? If it would be fitted on Fred, would George then get Fred's old Mk I radar until a Mk II becomes available, or would the Mk I set be erased from existence?
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 3, 2019 16:33:51 GMT -6
The installation of radar sets is (at present) entirely automated, so you wouldn't have to make any such choice. In your example though, you would see that Fred (probably) or George (possibly) got your "Mk I" radar set some few months (1-3 it seems like) after "discovery". When your "Mk II" set becomes available Fred (probably) or George (possibly) would get a "Mk II" set a few months after discovery, which if given to Fred would write its Mk I set into oblivion, or if given to George would appear as the first radar set assigned to the ship. If it was given to George, then George would have gone directly from 'no radar' to "Mk II".
Now mind you this process happens so seamlessly and so "correct-seeming" that I have never paid close attention to it, so my estimation of dispersion of sets might be skewed. Also, your radar terminology I kept for the sake of your example, but that is not quite how it works.
Radar has 5 (I believe)* levels of ability in two categories, Search and Fire Control. The radar tech tree lists and advises of the particulars of the advancement, but the only numbers you will see are on the Ships in Service tab in the Radar column. Search folds Air and Surface search together, though air search does not have a "stat"; a Radar rating of 5/4 for instance would refer to Surface Search 5 & Radar Fire Control 4, and are simply a subjective ranking of ability. Along the way on the tech tree you will also get various Air Search discoveries, though they do not affect the Radar Rating displayed for your ship.
The Radar subsystem I have described above has remained stable and working "as is" for quite a long time, so I would not imagine anything would be changed from this point forward, but I cannot of course state this for certainty.
* Edit; There are only 4 levels of Fire Control, so your ship's peak radar development would read as "5/4" in the above referenced column
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Mar 3, 2019 16:56:42 GMT -6
Speaking of radars, how important their tech line seems to be? Does the player seem to have a significant advantage priorizing it? I know this question might sound even naive, and the answer might as well be a simple "duh!", but now that I think about it, very little dialogue happened so far concerning them. When the search radar is having a good day and it feels like doing some actual work, does that seriously show at the battle result screen? Is FC radar a "must have or perish" tech, or might a player get away with "meh, low priority" attitude? Is blindfiring a game-changer? Or is it like motorcycle helmet, you'll need it one in a thousand times, but that one time pray that you DO have it? Somewhat connected to this, are aerial radar sets a possibility in some shape or form? (I vaguely recall something about that in an early Dev Journal, maybe concerning ASW points for CVs.)
Obviously I asked a fair bit of stuff that might still protected by NDA, as such, the tl;dr is really just: "Is radar important in RtW2 to begin with?"
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 3, 2019 17:21:36 GMT -6
Well, when it is night-time it is obvious which side has it and which doesn't. :]
I always put it to High priority when it is discovered, and I think for all the classical reasons one would presume it is highly desirable in the game. And yes, airborne radar is part of the tech tree, though I haven't seen an obvious game attribution to its use yet.
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Mar 4, 2019 4:33:40 GMT -6
Well, when it is night-time it is obvious which side has it and which doesn't. :] If it's obvious which side has radar at night, I take it that the keen ability of certain American admirals to get ambushed by enemies that they had been tracking on radar is not modeled?
|
|
|
Post by garrisonchisholm on Mar 4, 2019 7:52:32 GMT -6
Well, if the player chooses to ignore his data and sail into gun-range and get bushwhacked, it is modeled.
|
|
|
Post by Adseria on Mar 4, 2019 9:45:50 GMT -6
Is it possible to get false radar contacts, or to not acquire a ship that is there? I would imagine that this might happen quite a lot, particularly with earlier radars.
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Mar 4, 2019 9:53:53 GMT -6
Or - and I'll be quick to point out, I'm NOT expecting this kind of stuff from the game - it could be fun to "hide" from early radars in front of larger land masses.
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on Mar 4, 2019 15:27:52 GMT -6
"Captain! Radar room says they think something is up, but it's probably just them imagining things again!"
|
|
|
Post by Adseria on Mar 4, 2019 16:18:58 GMT -6
Is it possible to get false radar contacts, or to not acquire a ship that is there? I would imagine that this might happen quite a lot, particularly with earlier radars. Yes, it is entirely possible to get false radar contacts. In the atmosphere, a radar beam can be caught between two layers of the troposphere and propagated a very long way. It is titled "tunneling" or an atmospheric duct.We detected from Fallon AFS a target and no one could figure out where it was, until NORAD came back and said we have detected a commercial airliner over Tokyo, landing. It was tunneling. Topography can block or reflect radar beams and even provide an area where no targets can be detected. At Savo Island in 1942, at night, Savo Island provided such an area so that the USS Blue's Air Search Radar failed to detect the Japanese Cruiser Force sailing in front of it. All this depends on the radar's frequency, higher frequency sets tend to fire beams in much straighter lines. They are generally used in the early days as fire control sets, the lower frequency sets around the FM or lower were generally search sets. I know it's possible IRL. I meant, is it possible in the game.
|
|
|
Post by aeson on Mar 4, 2019 16:29:29 GMT -6
I know it's possible IRL. I meant, is it possible in the game. Based on the image Fredrik W posted just above you, false contacts might just be in the game. That, or an unseen foe is almost perfectly paralleling Fredrik's German destroyer patrol.
|
|
|
Post by archelaos on Mar 4, 2019 17:00:29 GMT -6
"Captain! Radar room says they think something is up, but it's probably just them imagining things again!"
In RTW1 you are not allowed to fire on Unidentified Ship. I assume you can do so in RTW2 if you have radar? Or how is such situation handled?
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Mar 4, 2019 17:11:11 GMT -6
Yes, it is entirely possible to get false radar contacts. In the atmosphere, a radar beam can be caught between two layers of the troposphere and propagated a very long way. It is titled "tunneling" or an atmospheric duct.We detected from Fallon AFS a target and no one could figure out where it was, until NORAD came back and said we have detected a commercial airliner over Tokyo, landing. It was tunneling. Topography can block or reflect radar beams and even provide an area where no targets can be detected. At Savo Island in 1942, at night, Savo Island provided such an area so that the USS Blue's Air Search Radar failed to detect the Japanese Cruiser Force sailing in front of it. All this depends on the radar's frequency, higher frequency sets tend to fire beams in much straighter lines. They are generally used in the early days as fire control sets, the lower frequency sets around the FM or lower were generally search sets. I know it's possible IRL. I meant, is it possible in the game. In most instances, my answers are directed at not just the person who created the post, but as information for all who might not have an understanding of the subject.
|
|
|
Post by akosjaccik on Mar 4, 2019 17:26:34 GMT -6
In RTW1 you are not allowed to fire on Unidentified Ship. I assume you can do so in RTW2 if you have radar? Or how is such situation handled? That is actually a very fair question. Identification is a bit funky sometimes in RtW, I have seen instances where the player couldn't return fire while being under fire clearly from a particular unidentified vessel. ...which kind of makes sense on one hand (still might be blue on blue), not so much on the other. But if one goes with the "RtW-system", maybe blind firing works as long slash only as long as some other vessel visually identifies enemies beforehand?
In a general sense, this digs a bit into communications as well, how will said information be transmitted, is there some kind of radio range simulated? Because if someone needs to send a destroyer to ID the radar contacts, and the destroyer "loses contact" after 3000 yards in the darkness, that will be... only semi-fun.
These questions are why I suggested some kind of a "night fighting add-on" or "DLC" in a different topic, RtW's rules work wonderfully in daylight, bit shaky at night, and simply putting radar into the mix might... give us interesting results. I'm curious how it will turn out, that much is certain.
|
|
|
Post by Adseria on Mar 5, 2019 10:11:34 GMT -6
I know it's possible IRL. I meant, is it possible in the game. In most instances, my answers are directed at not just the person who created the post, but as information for all who might not have an understanding of the subject. As nice as that is, it doesn't change the fact that the question you answered was different to the one being asked.
|
|