Coastal Subs vs. Medium Range Subs

[garychildress]

Once medium range subs are available, is it worthwhile to keep coastal subs around? Maintenance wise, you can keep two coastal subs for the price of one medium range sub but if your enemy's closest bases are overseas, then I'm wondering if coastal subs might not be as effective.

[polyarmus]

They operate only in home waters.

Therefore they make sense for Italy and AH as their main area of operations are their home waters.

[nuclearnadal]

Imo subs aren't worth it past 1950. They get sunk way to fast by aircraft for minimal returns. I'd save the funds entirely and spend it on new destroyers/CL's.

[noshurviverse]

Like almost everything, it depends on who you are. USA, probably not. Austria-Hungary or a post-Versailles Germany, probably. Also take in mind that MRSS are more effective overall, but I don't know if it's enough to overcome the 2:1 ratio possible.

[thesovietonion]

In my last game I got the "Ban submarines" even in the early thirties and went the rest of the game not building a single sub with no regrets. Even at the point of being banned I only had about 25, while other nations had several hundred.

[JagdFlanker]

medium range subs replace coastal subs and raiders, and are good for starving the enemy to force surrender using unrestricted sub warfare

coastal subs are only worth building if you share your home seazone with the nation you are at war with - i personally prefer AMCs since they are more flexible and possibly cheaper

[rodentnavy]

I have not had time to fully test it in RTW2 but in RTW1 coastal subs still often made sense for the British because of their global network of bases, meaning your SSCs often could nearly as much nastiness as your SS boats. Obviously specific range is now more important at least in some aspects of RTW2 so that might have changed but as others have said for folks who spend a fair amount of time defending home water SSCs are a good option.

[pirateradar]

May 24, 2019 14:22:44 GMT -6 rodentnavy said:

I have not had time to fully test it in RTW2 but in RTW1 coastal subs still often made sense for the British because of their global network of bases, meaning your SSCs often could nearly as much nastiness as your SS boats. Obviously specific range is now more important at least in some aspects of RTW2 so that might have changed but as others have said for folks who spend a fair amount of time defending home water SSCs are a good option.

Global network of bases shouldn't matter, SSCs only operate in your home area. Any SSCs are pretty useful in NE, of course, because the game assumes there's always heavy merchant traffic from any nation around NE.

[garrisonchisholm]

I am famously newly reformed from the Never Scrap Anything school, but even so I have never scrapped a sub. Until I have an Event pop-up from a sobbing mother asking "why did you send my son to sea in that 46% death trap" I am going to keep sending 'em out.

[pirateradar]

May 24, 2019 20:37:38 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

I am famously newly reformed from the Never Scrap Anything school, but even so I have never scrapped a sub. Until I have an Event pop-up from a sobbing mother asking "why did you send my son to sea in that 46% death trap" I am going to keep sending 'em out.

I'm on the same page here, I just never remember to. Low-reliability subs are more likely to go in war anyway, so war is kind of my automatic scrapping process for deathtraps submarines.

[axe99]

May 24, 2019 20:37:38 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

I am famously newly reformed from the Never Scrap Anything school, but even so I have never scrapped a sub. Until I have an Event pop-up from a sobbing mother asking "why did you send my son to sea in that 46% death trap" I am going to keep sending 'em out.

I think for the sake of the virtual submariners, this event needs to be in the game

[garrisonchisholm]

May 24, 2019 22:19:44 GMT -6 axe99 said:

May 24, 2019 20:37:38 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

I am famously newly reformed from the Never Scrap Anything school, but even so I have never scrapped a sub. Until I have an Event pop-up from a sobbing mother asking "why did you send my son to sea in that 46% death trap" I am going to keep sending 'em out.

I think for the sake of the virtual submariners, this event needs to be in the game

Well let's get bcoopactual's take on it then.  :]

[rodentnavy]

May 24, 2019 20:29:12 GMT -6 pirateradar said:

May 24, 2019 14:22:44 GMT -6 rodentnavy said:

I have not had time to fully test it in RTW2 but in RTW1 coastal subs still often made sense for the British because of their global network of bases, meaning your SSCs often could nearly as much nastiness as your SS boats. Obviously specific range is now more important at least in some aspects of RTW2 so that might have changed but as others have said for folks who spend a fair amount of time defending home water SSCs are a good option.

Global network of bases shouldn't matter, SSCs only operate in your home area. Any SSCs are pretty useful in NE, of course, because the game assumes there's always heavy merchant traffic from any nation around NE.

Coastal submarines have shorter operational radius, so will only occur closer to your bases. They also have limited torpedo capacity


Per the RTW2 

So that suggests that bases do matter.  I am pretty sure I have seen my coastal boats in battles outside Europe when playing a European power with bases or North America as the US. I might be wrong so I shall keep more of an eye out. 

[wknehring]

Costal Subs only in Northern Europe and the Mediterranian- in both seazones you have enough enemies worth to harass, even if you concentrate on other seazones to capture some colonies or prepare some landing operations. A number of 20-30 coastal subs (high reliability required) with fleet support can sink some precious enemy vessels.
But I am not certain, if they are limited to your build area- I think I have seen some coastal boats in Africa with some of my German playthroughs. Maybe it has something to do with the tech "improved operational range for coastal submarines"- perhaps they can travel to neighbour-seazones than?

Medium Subs are a legit choice if you have to watch your budget, like the Kriegsmarine, or some minor Mediterranian navies to collect some VP via unrestricted warfare for some months. Sometimes you starve your oponent to revolution and than you collect the big points.

What is new for RTW2 is the possibility to lose subs by flying boats- something I managed relatively early in a war 1925 while playing the demo version. I guess this becomes even more common in the late game.
And what is brutal for minor navies- naval treaties with restricted submarines. In my Kriegsmarine-game I lost 81 subs (~50 medium subs) to such an event. That´s hard! Normally as a minor navy you hope for some restrictive treaties (10-12k ts/8-10") to handle the arms race and than you build some subs as supportive 2nd VP-income. Now you get punished in some cases

[bcoopactual]

May 24, 2019 22:54:37 GMT -6 garrisonchisholm said:

May 24, 2019 22:19:44 GMT -6 axe99 said:

I think for the sake of the virtual submariners, this event needs to be in the game

Well let's get bcoopactual's take on it then.  :]

we should talk Fredrik into slipping it into a test patch. I'll go on record requesting a transfer to the infantry.


It's funny as long as you don't consider that that is essentially what Germany did in WW2, losing 793 u-boats and 28,000 men (about a 75% casualty rate). Not that that was unique. Unfortunately when you start losing a total war that kind of thinking becomes the norm.