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Post by dorn on Jun 17, 2019 16:30:35 GMT -6
My first carrier without req. 8x8" guns have only 22000 tons but 4.5" belt, 3" deck and still 60 aicrafts and speed of 30 knots. She was cheap in maintenance too. So to do temporary conversion give a sence as this ship would have reasonable armour, lacking only TDS (most important for carrier).
You can see in future war but I do not think that some of mothballed ships would have any effect in next war.
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Post by yemo on Jun 17, 2019 18:05:54 GMT -6
aeson dorn Yeah, 30-32 planes is really not much for such maintenance costs. It is not cost efficient, but it would save a tiny bit of time from having a capable purpose built CV. Also at the moment we do not have a single real carrier available and purpose built CVs are still a few years away. Does not cost much to leave my successor that option (or the 2x2x15 alternative). Damn, I hate it when I have to use a calculator for a spreadsheet game. Will have to reconsider the mothballing. With all those submarines, I ll keep the CLs to take back foreign stations and free the DDs for ASW. And those Napoleon and Austerlitz classes are worth quite some blockade points as well. In fact we are so close to Germany, that even the two Ocean class BBs could make the difference between being blockaded or blockading Germany.
edit: Especially since Germany is building a whole bunch of mini CLs, which are still worth 4 fleet points each!
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Post by gimlet on Jun 18, 2019 0:03:14 GMT -6
The way I do it is mothball all the stuff you want to mothball and try to end turn, if there's complaints move ships to RF one by one (or like 5-10 at a time if it's something like DD/KE). You don't actually lose crew quality until the month actually ends, so there's no penalty for trying.
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Post by yemo on Jun 19, 2019 16:40:27 GMT -6
1923-03 Half the fleet mothballed1923-03 4 oldest Chasseloup Laubat CLs refit, two fewer 6inch casemate guns, but new spotter plane 1923-04 Fire control - 15 ft rangefinder1923-05 Azizeh class AV ordered 1923-05 Submarines - Medium range submarine1923-06 Oil discovered in neutral Angola 1923-06 Explosive shells - Enhanced high explosive filler 1923-08 Light forces and torpedo warfare - Quadruple torpedo tube mounts1923-08 Significant naval budget increase 1923-09 2 Pertusiane class DDs refit (director firing) 1923-09 Machinery development - Advanced superheater 1923-10 Our spy steals British 18/-1 gun technology 1923-10 ASW technology - Improved depth charges 1923-10 Naval gun research - Better 9 inch guns (Q0) 1924-01 Hull construction - Weight saving 1924-04 Shipboard aircraft operation - Aircraft carrier conversion 1924-05 Fleet tactics - Effective sigint1924-05 Drastically increased naval budget1924-06 Armour development - Improved armour testing methods 1924-08 Ship design - Efficient hull form 1924-08 AP projectiles - Improved AP penetrator alloys1924-09 12 Yatagan class destroyers ordered 1924-10 8inch Q0 guns bought from Japan1924-10 BC Dunkerque and BC Duquesne commissioned
1924-10 12 Espingole class destroyers ordered (1500tons, 34knots, 18TT)
1924-11 Light forces and torpedo warfare - DD of up to 1500tons
1924-11 All Javeline class destroyers refit (director firing)
1924-12 Naval aviation, heavier than air - Aircraft catapult 1925-01 We now have to decide whether we start building the 21 subs the minister half a year ago.
Those are the new ship classes that were built, refit or ordered until 1925-01:
Azizeh class AV
DD Pertusiane class, old
DD Pertusiane class, new
DD Javeline class, oldDD Javeline class, new
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Post by yemo on Jun 19, 2019 17:18:03 GMT -6
It has been 5 years since I became Chief of the French navy.
Under my leadership, the navy has been reformed and we achieved a glorious victory against Austria-Hungary. Taking Dalmatia as well as their newest battlecruiser from them and reinforcing our position in the Mediterranean. The navy, and France, are in better shape than ever before. With our most modern ships rivaling the British and US ones.
But now it is all over. The press published a story about US businesses transferring money to opposition leaders in 1920. Businesses with connections to US shipyards. It did not take long and speculation about all the navy contracts to US shipyards surfaced. Denials and distractions were not enough, people gathered in the streets and the government, already in crisis, chose the shortsighted, but easy option. They needed a scapegoat.
After all I did for France, this is how they repay me. With backstabbing and defamation.
They even suggested that I leave the country, at least for a while! They shall regret their decision, when the situation with Germany gets worse.
I have publically taken the fall, to prevent a souring of US-French relations over this issue, as my last selfless act for France!
yemo, Chief of the French Navy
PS: New York is really worth a visit, all those skyscrapers and it seems that every day a new one is built. I invite you to visit me, old comrade, they care quite well for their friends.
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Post by yemo on Jun 19, 2019 18:07:46 GMT -6
I have not yet heard back from my "planned" successor Warspite (due to a forum handle mixup - warspite is not Warspite), so I will do a short status update. The savegame:
The British are the undisputed budget and research champion. And while the US has a lot higher budget than France, the 2nd place in terms of valuable research is less clear.
Unfortunately we did not manage to pick a fight with Italy, instead Germany seems to be the likely next opponent. They have a 31knot battlecruiser and generally a larger capital ship fleet as well as more modern and thus faster light cruisers. While we still have a lot of older capital ships and light cruisers to prevent them from blockading us in a war or to free up our ASW DDs from their foreign stations service.
Our destroyer force is superior, including our very large ASW DD fleet against their 30+ submarines.
~48 Yatagan ASW DDs are in service and 12 additional ones are under construction. They are pretty cost effective for foreign stations as well as ASW TP duty.
A new class of twelve 1500ton destroyers with 18TTs each might be useful to decimate the enemy capital ship advantage and finally allow our older capital ships to retire.
We have an outstanding request to build 21 submarines, received about 6 months ago. It could be worthwhile to just build 21 coastal submarines for a month or so and then scrap them again, since our tech in that area is rather weak.
Unfortunately our foreign station requirements have increased, the South Pacific now needs 8000 tons instead of 4000.
In terms of technology, we are not too bad in comparison with everyone but the British (and even they do not have every valuable tech we have, eg reliable turrets for smaller calibers). Based on the pop-up information, TPS4 (we are quite behind in damage control tech in general) as well as Improved Director fire control are expected in the near future.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 1:40:16 GMT -6
Personal log - my first day in officeI have just say good bye Admiral Yemo after briefing of several issues of French navy. He certainly start good trend however my personal feeling is that he could be more fierce with changes. But I do not want to be premature with valuation of his steps. Firstly I need to look how I will be able to do my job. Priorities are quite clear. The short time goal is to prepare Navy for war against Germany, the second task, quite difficult to do it in 5 years. is to modernized French Navy. For such task every savings coudl be justified but I need to find balance between this and preparation for war against Germany as these to objectives are in contradiction. Last think Yemo mentioned he would like to preserve first small carrier Amiral Cecille as museum ship after her time arose. This is not for today as being are only carrier. Neverthless I shold not be sentimental about her, if public rise money for that Navy will support it otherwise ... Personal log - 7 days in office
Thirteen days ago I asked DNC to prepare some preliminary study of Vosges conversion to carrier. We had quite interesting discussion when I told him that it needed to be cheap as possible, I expect only double purpose guns of 4" caliber we have and expect carrier with at least 30 aicrafts. He confirm that it could prepare it for Board. When he came to me yesterday I was enthusiasm about sketche he prepared making flush flight deck with 8x4" DP guns and hangar large enough to carry 32 aicrafts. He expected that it would costs only about 4M which I was completely suprised.
Next day morning I was in good mood going to Board with several points, leaving light force on another board: - task 1 - ask of approval of scrapping Ocean class battleships - task 2 - ask of approval of scrapping Austerlitz class battlecruisers - task 3 - ask of approval of conversion Vosges to aicraft carrier - task 7 - ask of reactivation of Napoleon class battleships The first 2 points was tough, but after a lot of arguments. However after presenting of sketches prepared by DNC I was suprised that everybody try to make changes he thoughts would be best for the fleet. Most arguments were that carrier would have no guns to defend herself and my argument that speed and escort should defend carrier was completely outspoken. They argument that after scrapping several capital ships there will be no one to defend her was completely misunderstood concept of future navy. They are just a lot of shorsighted incompetent admirals. Vosges is not for war with Germany is first chain of future French Navy. No matter what Board agreed that new sketch need to be presented and carrier need to have at least 8x8" guns for her defense. I have started understanding what difficulties Admiral Yemo faced. The last point about reactivation of Napoleons was approved quite quickly.
I quickly agreed on another meeting with DNC same day and we were speaking about options. First option was to decrease aircraft complement. But DNC come with another idea to replaced old engines. For my objection that it would costs too much, DNC comes with idea decrease speed of ships to allow weight savings. We agreed he will prepare several sketches very quickly. Personal log - 14 days in office Today I get sketches from DNC about Vosges, but I have mixed feelings. I need to choose one or decide to scrap Vosges. I ask my staff about opinions and waiting about theirs reccomendations.
Variant/ aicraftts / engine refit / speed / conversion costs/ costs per 1 aicraft - lifetime 20 years
Variant B - 25 aicrafts, no engine refit, 28 knots, 10 M costs, 7,6 M per aicraft for 20 years
Variant C - 34 aicrafts, engine refit, 28 knots, 45 M costs, 7,2 M per aicraft for 20 years
Variant D - 38 aicrafts, engine refit, 26 knots, 39 M costs, 6,4 M per aicraft for 20 years
Variant E - 40 aicrafts, engine refit, 25 knots, 28 M costs, 5,8 M per aicraft for 20 years
Discussion can be found there.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 2:14:34 GMT -6
Personal log - 18 days in office
I get nice analysis from one of members of my staff with recommandation to build new light carrier instead conversion becauase new carrier would have higher speed than variant E and better torpedo protection. It has some merit but we need to start carriers operation with larger deck and complement. We should gain experience what does work and what does not to be able to build new carrier from keel which will be much more effective. So I decided to push variant E as it is still between 10-20 years most economical variant, the sheer size can help protect her against torpedoes and with her armour and guns she will be able to fight any light cruiser if our relics could not defend her.
Personal log - 21 days in office
This day start nicely, variant F of Vosges reconstruction as slightly upgraded variant B with 42 aicrafts was approved by Board. She is even more efficient for 2.824 M per aicraft for 10 years and 4.992 M per aicraft for 20 years operational status. I have decided to continue all constructions of destroyers and postpone any reactivation of fleet. I need to discuss situation about Germany with Foreign Minister. I need to know if we can evade this war otherwise I suggest to provoke it as soon as possible.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 2:45:45 GMT -6
Personal log - 24 days in office
What the hell, I just received intellingence report about comparison of our technology advances compared to others claiming our technology superiority on par with USA and UK. They completely ignore my report as naval attaché in UK last year. Royal Navy has already started studing new designs of light cruisers 4x2 arrangement similar to some battleships. They have already introduced shell dyes, their shells are much realiable than our owns, they already wrote some analysis about convoy system. I need to focuse on that. As our cruiser force is completely irrelevant it is needed to focus on light forces, do some test for superimposed B turrets on our cruisers. We should completely on focus shipboard aicraft operation which Vosges will serve well for, fire control systems, armour penetrations of AP shells and better guns. Everything other should be put in low priority for time being.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 4:44:51 GMT -6
Personal log - 1st of February 1925 I have just been named after a lot of animals not building any submarines. I can live with it however they made me clear that they will decrease naval budget if I am not proposing new construction program. I need time as I do not expect that reasonable cruiser could be built.
Our security agreement with Japan expired. I do not care as I think it is more beneficial for Japan than us.
Personal log - 2nd of February 1925 My meeting with Prime Minister and Foreign Minister was worthwile as I get question if I can guarantee victory over German. I assure them both French Navy is ready to fight Germans and sink their ships to the bottom of the sea. Later afternoon I choose Potez 76 fighter for development. I hope it will be more reliable than Levasseur PL.67.
Personal log - 10th of February 1925 Today I get report both new battlecruisers finshed working-up. There are beautiful ships and beginning of our new navy. I am just thinking that I need to replaced old Napoleon class battleships. May be it I can solve it by smaller designs than Tourville and Dunkerque. All three battlecruisers can serve as fast division and I can start building new battleships around 27 knots which will be cheaper version but still can operate close to fast battlecruisers.
Personal log - 17th of February 1925 Damn it Amiral Charner. This decision was waiting for me too long. This ship is too costly and slow. I will let it scrap. I am just hoping that she will be really not needed in next war and be so sure as giving that order. I reactivated 2 modernized Chasseloup Laubat class cruisers to replaced Amiral Charner.
Personal log - 2nd of March 1925 I have just meeting with Prime Minister. He asked me to deploy additional forces in North Europe to be prepared for German agression. He probably does not realize I scrapped 4 capital ships 2 months earlier and 5th has being in shipyard for conversion to carrier. The Napoleon class battleships are just in Gibraltar Strait so they will quickly enhanced capability of the fleet.
Personal log - 16th of March 1925 I agreed to sell technology for improved homogenous armour to Austria-Hungary. They are not threat and it will help budget. I just get report USA has commisioned 2 battlecruisers with 5x16" guns and speed of 29 knots. However intelligence report shows it has only 9" of armour. It seems US Navy thinks that heavier broadside can damage target earlier and prevent damage to their our ship. I do not agree with them but I hope I will not need to teach them this lesson.
Personal log - 18th of March 1925 Situation with Germany deteriorated. I mobilized whole fleet and order to plan fleet excercise in North Sea in April. Recall almost all destroyers and corvettes from colonies and send there old Chasseloup Laubat class cruisers.
I start request of medium bomber with maximum bomb load. If our industry give me reasonable aicrafts I will start construction of naval stations near coast with Germany.
Personal log - 14th of April Fleet excercie has just finished. Reading report it is clear that our damage control and subdivision is on bad level. According to report red fleet even having advantage 2 vs. 1 battlecruiser cannot sink blue fleet Dunkerque class battlecruiser as 21 hits only mainly damaged superstructure and on opposite blue fleet Dunkerque class was sink by 16 heavy hits because of heavy progressive flooding. Both Napoleons has no influence on excercise being too slow. It seems nessesary to replaced them as soon as possible.
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Post by aeson on Jun 27, 2019 8:43:41 GMT -6
I need time as I do not expect that reasonable cruiser could be built. Depends a bit on what you consider reasonable. Either of these, for example, are legal designs for you at the moment, and would I think be reasonable enough to work with, though they might be difficult to fit in if you're planning to start work on a battleship program soon.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 9:03:43 GMT -6
I need time as I do not expect that reasonable cruiser could be built. Depends a bit on what you consider reasonable. Either of these, for example, are legal designs for you at the moment, and would I think be reasonable enough to work with, though they might be difficult to fit in if you're planning to start work on a battleship program soon.
War with Germany is matter of time so no ship larger than destroyers started construction now will have impact on war. This is main reason I continue construction program of destroyers. It is pity that Yatagan is completely unsuitable for fleet duty even in emergency. So I will start probably construction program in year. I Hope I will be able to implement B turret. I have not think about cruisers itself. I will need several for colonial duty about 7200 tons, probably several smaller about 5800 tons and may be some really small about 4000 tons. I would probably not build specialized fleet cruisers. These cruisers except 4000 should have enough spare tonnage to be useful next 20 years at least. Related to battleships, I would probably used british shipyards which means construction right now has some risks and would be better after war with Germany.
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Post by yemo on Jun 27, 2019 9:22:49 GMT -6
Depends a bit on what you consider reasonable. Either of these,
for example, are legal designs for you at the moment, and would I think be reasonable enough to work with, though they might be difficult to fit in if you're planning to start work on a battleship program soon.
War with Germany is matter of time so no ship larger than destroyers started construction now will have impact on war. This is main reason I continue construction program of destroyers. It is pity that Yatagan is completely unsuitable for fleet duty even in emergency. So I will start probably construction program in year. I Hope I will be able to implement B turret. I have not think about cruisers itself. I will need several for colonial duty about 7200 tons, probably several smaller about 5800 tons and may be some really small about 4000 tons. I would probably not build specialized fleet cruisers. These cruisers except 4000 should have enough spare tonnage to be useful next 20 years at least. Related to battleships, I would probably used british shipyards which means construction right now has some risks and would be better after war with Germany. Imho the only real problems with ship construction in France are the bad tech levels in Ship Design as well as Subdivision and Damage Control. The latter can be partially explained by the bad game mechanics getting us stuck by jumping on TPS 4 research well before its time. And both are a result of neglect of priorities. I do not understand why you seem to have set those to low priority as well, since every homebuilt ship (including cruisers and CVs) will profit from advances in these two areas.
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Post by aeson on Jun 27, 2019 9:51:56 GMT -6
War with Germany is matter of time so no ship larger than destroyers started construction now will have impact on war. This is main reason I continue construction program of destroyers. It is pity that Yatagan is completely unsuitable for fleet duty even in emergency. Between the two Pertusianes, nine Javelines, twelve Framees, and twelve Espingoles, you have plenty of destroyers for the two battleships, three battlecruisers, and one large aircraft carrier that you have in service or under construction. Building more seems somewhat unnecessary, even if it might be nice to have some with a bit more of a balanced armament.
Also, it's a bit late for it now, but it occurs to me to wonder if the Austerlitz class might not have been a better conversion target than Vosges. Sure, it was smaller and slower and had cramped accommodations, but it also had a lot of tonnage in its six 14" guns with their 180 rounds per gun, and cramped accommodations mostly aren't problematic for a ship in home waters.
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Post by dorn on Jun 27, 2019 10:18:20 GMT -6
War with Germany is matter of time so no ship larger than destroyers started construction now will have impact on war. This is main reason I continue construction program of destroyers. It is pity that Yatagan is completely unsuitable for fleet duty even in emergency. Between the two Pertusianes, nine Javelines, twelve Framees, and twelve Espingoles, you have plenty of destroyers for the two battleships, three battlecruisers, and one large aircraft carrier that you have in service or under construction. Building more seems somewhat unnecessary, even if it might be nice to have some with a bit more of a balanced armament.
Also, it's a bit late for it now, but it occurs to me to wonder if the Austerlitz class might not have been a better conversion target than Vosges. Sure, it was smaller and slower and had cramped accommodations, but it also had a lot of tonnage in its six 14" guns with their 180 rounds per gun, and cramped accommodations mostly aren't problematic for a ship in home waters.
I expect that Vosges would be later excellent for secondary theatres and for long run it is quite important. I agree with destroyers, but after some sinking of submarines, they have no other use and use them to help with blockade is possible but risky.
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