There's something still screwy with Torpedoes 1.05b

[dizzy]

***When you ready a plane, the torps are not deducted until AFTER the plane is Readied. 1.05b is an improvement over 1.05 when they were deducted when launched, but it's still a serious problem. Don't do it like that. Instead, subtract the torps the moment the player clicks to Ready Strike. I shouldn't have to go into detail to explain why, but if you don't know why, think about it.




I use two different torpedo bomber squadrons on my carrier. One TB Squadron consisting of 15 planes carries a single 2000lbs torp, while the other Squadron of 15 planes carries TWO 1400lbs Torps. 

Here's what 1.05 says: "Aircraft torpedoes will be limited to 2 torpedoes per/TB plane stationed on each carrier/base."

My carrier had sixty torps. But I probably shouldn't ever buy Torpedo planes that carry 2 torps when I can have one that carries a single bigger torp. If you take the above as it should be intended, perhaps I should have had a total of 90 Torps.

But it gets worse. When I Readied the Squadron that carries 2 torps per plane, I noticed only one torp ammo deducted per plane when it should have deducted two. So either you need to change the above to: "Aircraft torpedoes will be limited to 2 torpedo Loadouts per/TB plane stationed on each carrier/base" so I'll get my 90 torpedoes or it's broken because it's not keeping track of the extra torps my squadron of twin carrying torp planes are allowed to load at once. Either way, I don't believe the game tracks the difference between the 2000lbs and 1400lbs warheads, but if it does, we have a definite ammo problem because torp ammo on a carrier needs to keep track of the different ammo. Also, can I be assured that twin carrying torp planes will drop two fish in the water per plane? I think I'm being shorted because of the ammo behavior. At any rate, it needs to be fixed.

[gornik]

I always believe, that H/M in torp section means only radius of plane, without any reference to bomb number/weight in that section, and torpedo is one per plane, as it was IRL. But would be good, if Fredrik or William clarify this.

[dizzy]

Jun 28, 2019 2:38:24 GMT -6 gornik said:

I always believe, that H/M in torp section means only radius of plane, without any reference to bomb number/weight in that section, and torpedo is one per plane, as it was IRL. But would be good, if Fredrik or William clarify this.

I don't know if M/H in the torpedo column is indicative of the warhead type and or difference between a 2000lbs torpedo and a 1400lbs torpedo. 

My issue is not the above. It is the fact half of my torpedo squadron planes carry TWO torps and the others carry one. 

I'm expecting to have TWO torps in the water per plane which should increase my chances to hit over using a single torpedo and I do this at the expense of using a larger warhead. I'm not sure how it works internally, but I'd like to know. Regardless, the issue is with torp counting and 1.05b doesn't count properly.

[seawolf]

The torpedo load for those is medium not heavy-they only carry one

[dorn]

Jun 28, 2019 2:52:34 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Jun 28, 2019 2:38:24 GMT -6 gornik said:

I always believe, that H/M in torp section means only radius of plane, without any reference to bomb number/weight in that section, and torpedo is one per plane, as it was IRL. But would be good, if Fredrik or William clarify this.

I don't know if M/H in the torpedo column is indicative of the warhead type and or difference between a 2000lbs torpedo and a 1400lbs torpedo. 

My issue is not the above. It is the fact half of my torpedo squadron planes carry TWO torps and the others carry one. 

I'm expecting to have TWO torps in the water per plane which should increase my chances to hit over using a single torpedo and I do this at the expense of using a larger warhead. I'm not sure how it works internally, but I'd like to know. Regardless, the issue is with torp counting and 1.05b doesn't count properly.

It means bombs, not torpedoes. I would be suprised that torpedo bomber carriers 2 torpedoes.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

I might be wrong here, but the first single engine plane (a mass produced one, not just a prototype) I know of that could be armed with multiple torpedoes was A-1 Skyraider, IIRC, but it is post-WW2, so it never had a chance to fight against any serious naval threats. Combat practices are always different from on-paper/testing capabilities. I'd seriously doubt USN would ever employ such a loadout in actual combat.

Moreover, I'd make a guess and say that they'd rather use a loadout with 2 underwing droptanks + single centerline mounted torpedo. Maybe add some HVARs into the mix as well. That would be much realistic IMO.

Also, in-game loadouts show bombloads for given ranges, not torpedoes. Torpedoes gotta be more universal, just like the ship-based ones. So I do not think that you can have multiple torpedoes mounted on a plane in RtW2.

[dizzy]

Ok, so my whole premise is wrong? The last column for Hvy Bomb does not also reflect torpedo load?

Edit: What does M mean in the torpedo column? My earlier TB's had an H, and later TB's have an M.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

H/M (and sometimes even L) in a "Torpedo" column means that this aircraft has a maximum range equal to Rng Hvy/Rng Med/Rng lt (in nautical miles) when armed with a torpedo.

[dizzy]

Thanks for everyone's help. It's quite embarrassing how I completely botched understanding the difference in Torpedo vs Hvy Bomb weight. I updated the OP and still retained the part about how the game behavior for subtracting torps from your stores is still screwy. It should subtract them the second you click Ready so while they are readying, you see the correct amount of torps in case you need to ready another squadron. You shouldn't have to micro your stores, it should be intuitive and it's still not in 1.05b. I'd like to see this changed.

[dizzy]

Jun 28, 2019 3:46:12 GMT -6 L0ckAndL0ad said:

H/M (and sometimes even L) in a "Torpedo" column means that this aircraft has a maximum range equal to Rng Hvy/Rng Med/Rng lt (in nautical miles) when armed with a torpedo.

Wait a sec... so H means a Torp's range is equivalent to the Hvy Bomb range? And M is medium and L is light?

That doesnt sound right. The Mk 13 U.S. torpedo in WW2 weighed 2,200 lbs. I have TB's between 1919 and 1937 that are marked as H that can barely manage an 800 lb bomb load on Medium. So what's up?

[dorn]

Jun 28, 2019 4:07:00 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Jun 28, 2019 3:46:12 GMT -6 L0ckAndL0ad said:

H/M (and sometimes even L) in a "Torpedo" column means that this aircraft has a maximum range equal to Rng Hvy/Rng Med/Rng lt (in nautical miles) when armed with a torpedo.

Wait a sec... so H means a Torp's range is equivalent to the Hvy Bomb range? And M is medium and L is light?

That doesnt sound right. The Mk 13 U.S. torpedo in WW2 weighed 2,200 lbs. I have TB's between 1919 and 1937 that are marked as H that can barely manage an 800 lb bomb load on Medium. So what's up?

In game it is like it. I think it is a little simplification.

[Capsized]

Wikipedia seems to say that the TBD devastator could either carry one Mk 13 or one half-tonne bomb. It's not very far from what the game shows.
The problems with a heavy bomb are that it has a bigger diameter than a torpedo with the same weight (it's harder to fit under the aircraft) and for the TBD a third crew member is carried to operate the bombsight (no dive-bombing from a torpedo bomber!)

[dizzy]

Jun 28, 2019 4:19:37 GMT -6 dorn said:

Jun 28, 2019 4:07:00 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Wait a sec... so H means a Torp's range is equivalent to the Hvy Bomb range? And M is medium and L is light?

That doesnt sound right. The Mk 13 U.S. torpedo in WW2 weighed 2,200 lbs. I have TB's between 1919 and 1937 that are marked as H that can barely manage an 800 lb bomb load on Medium. So what's up?

In game it is like it. I think it is a little simplification.

Then the ranges are off. Medium load has a range longer than Hvy, but the Torpedo, in the case of the USA Mk 13, is sometimes heavier than the Hvy bomb load. 

Also, after doing research, I read where the USA carriers carried 2 torps per plane PLUS 12 spares. Where are the twelve spares? We got shorted.

[dorn]

Jun 28, 2019 4:30:13 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Jun 28, 2019 4:19:37 GMT -6 dorn said:

In game it is like it. I think it is a little simplification.

Then the ranges are off. Medium load has a range longer than Hvy, but the Torpedo, in the case of the USA Mk 13, is sometimes heavier than the Hvy bomb load. 

Also, after doing research, I read where the USA carriers carried 2 torps per plane PLUS 12 spares. Where are the twelve spares? We got shorted.

This has been already reported. Things need to be simplified. You take US example. Give information about IJN and RN and it could be interesting. On top of that does it mean that you have all torpedoes ready at start of that battle.

[ramjb]

Jun 28, 2019 4:30:13 GMT -6 dizzy said:

Jun 28, 2019 4:19:37 GMT -6 dorn said:

Then the ranges are off. Medium load has a range longer than Hvy, but the Torpedo, in the case of the USA Mk 13, is sometimes heavier than the Hvy bomb load. 

Also, after doing research, I read where the USA carriers carried 2 torps per plane PLUS 12 spares. Where are the twelve spares? We got shorted.

First - "whe got shorted" no you didn't. The game doesn't implement national doctrines in torpedo storage, applies the same rules for everyone, and not everyone had "12 spares".

Not to mention, USS Ranger carried no torpedoes, most of the CVEs didn't either, and I'm yet to see the Independence class storage (maybe someone can help here) but I highly doubt they had 2xtimes the avengers they carried+12. So even in the US we see fleet carriers without that standard of 2xTBs+12. But a lot of others carried less, and there were a good number (CVEs were the most numerous CVs of WWII) that carried no torpedoes at all (and once more, Ranger was a fleet CV, and Ranger as far as I remember didn't carry torpedoes).

That in the US. And other navies didn't follow that standard. The game doesn't model the whole thing after the "best case ever seen" or the "navy that did it best" it averages it across every nation with same rules for everyone.

So no, you didn't get shorted.



As for the "ranges are off", once again no they are not. For most of the early years of naval aviation carrying a torp was, indeed, maxing out the ordinance capacity of a torpedo bomber, hence the "heavy" range makes sense. As time went by there were multiple planes able to carry far more weight than just that of one torpedo. For instance the Martin Mauler (an US TB that was produced in limited numbers because of the end of WWII) was expected to carry up to 6000lbs of external ordinance. Turned out that, in practice, that thing could haul more than 10000 pounds of ordinance. Load that thing up with one torpedo, that plane would certainly enjoy far more range that at full load. In game you get those powerful TBs pretty late in the career as aircraft technology advances with the years, and yes, them having "Medium range" makes quite a lot of sense.

Same with medium bombers. A lot of naval attack torpedo carrying twin engined land based planes carrying just one torpedo were far from topping off their max ordinance loadout and would thus enjoy farther ranges than if they were loaded to the top with bombs, torps, or a mix of bombs and torpedoes.