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Post by dougphresh on Jul 25, 2019 4:36:12 GMT -6
On 7" and 10" guns:
Unless my tech is more advanced for that calibre, I'm having a hard time justifying their use.
These calibers seem somewhat "orphaned". In the first few years of the game I understand that only 7" can be mounted in wing turrets or I think BB double turrets. If I remember, 10" is the largest calibre that can be mounted in casemates. However, in the pre-dreadnought and semi-dreadnought era, what is the advantage of having a cruiser with turrets, considering the RoF penalty, or having a BB or CA with casemated 10" guns that can hardly hit anything or maintain a rate of fire to begin with, let alone in any kind of weather?
Would it be possible to have 7" guns fitted on either light or heavy cruisers? Ditto 10" on heavy cruisers or battle cruisers.
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Post by griffin01 on Jul 25, 2019 8:31:48 GMT -6
If I remember, 10" is the largest calibre that can be mounted in casemates. Nope. The largest that can be mounted without penalties. You can mount 19" guns in casemates, if you are some sort of madman. I second your motion to let light cruisers mount 7" guns, though, even if in limited capacity.
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Post by aeson on Jul 25, 2019 9:27:01 GMT -6
If I remember, 10" is the largest calibre that can be mounted in casemates. Only for the main battery; you can mount heavy (11"+) guns in casemates if they're in the secondary battery, but they'll take a rate-of-fire penalty.
Personally, I think that doing this would either make 6" guns undesirable - they're worse HAA per ton (and, without autoloaders, per gun) than 5", they're worse anti-cruiser than 7", and they're probably not better anti-DD than 5" except possibly against large late-game destroyers - or leave 7" guns in the same position that they're currently in. I do not see why a 10" gun would be desirable for a battlecruiser's main battery except maybe early on. 10" guns are really not heavy enough to be suited to engaging other capital ships, and battlecruisers are too frequently selected for engagements with other capital ships for an armament unsuited to engaging other capital ships to be acceptable for them.
Twin 7" or 8" guns are permissible in the A and Y positions on CLs using the protected cruiser armor configuration.
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Post by gornik on Jul 25, 2019 11:56:32 GMT -6
At "dreads dawn" I often build some 9"-10" heavy cruisers with 8-gun broadside for cruiser warfare (and for future CV conversion). They cost 50-60 mln, but may kill earlier CA, B and first BC in dozens (one of them sunk two predreads in solo battle, other three killed 5 CA in less than hour). In late game I prefer 15x8" cruisers-AV hybrids with 6-8 planes. With radar they become even more useful than BC (level III-IV protection save them from most torpedoes, while ROF/number of guns allow to outgun and cripple even stronger opponents in night and if bad thing happen, I always have another ships to replace loses) Two of such ships once engage enemy battleline and sunk 8x16" french-style monster without even using torpedoes!
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Post by cabalamat on Jul 25, 2019 12:06:33 GMT -6
A big reason historically that heavy cruisers were armed with 8" guns is due to treaty limitations. Unless your in a treaty in game there is very little reason why not a naval power would arm CAs with 10". I agree. Without the Washington Treaty, cruisers would have got bigger, with 9, 10, 11" etc guns.
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Post by cabalamat on Jul 25, 2019 12:13:23 GMT -6
At "dreads dawn" I often build some 9"-10" heavy cruisers with 8-gun broadside for cruiser warfare (and for future CV conversion). They cost 50-60 mln, but may kill earlier CA, B and first BC in dozens (one of them sunk two predreads in solo battle, other three killed 5 CA in less than hour). In late game I prefer 15x8" cruisers-AV hybrids with 6-8 planes. With radar they become even more useful than BC (level III-IV protection save them from most torpedoes, while ROF/number of guns allow to outgun and cripple even stronger opponents in night and if bad thing happen, I always have another ships to replace loses) Two of such ships once engage enemy battleline and sunk 8x16" french-style monster without even using torpedoes! I normally build heavy cruisers with 16x10in, in 4x4 turrets, and enough armour t5o be impervious to 6in shells. This makes them great for killing enemy CLs and also the large 6" gun cruisers they sometimes build. Their firepower is also useful as an auxillary against BBs (especially when there has been a treaty limiting these to 20-35,000 t). I also put TTs on them and give them high speed (33kts) which means they are viable to make torpedo runs against BBs.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 25, 2019 12:18:02 GMT -6
Twin 7" or 8" guns are permissible in the A and Y positions on CLs using the protected cruiser armor configuration.
That works, thanks for the tip!
I wouldn't count on it for the next versions, though, as the manual says otherwise: "... main gun calibre cannot be larger than 6 inches, unless it is a protected cruiser in which case it can have guns in single mountings up to 8 inches."
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Post by aeson on Jul 25, 2019 14:08:40 GMT -6
I wouldn't count on it for the next versions, though, as the manual says otherwise: "... main gun calibre cannot be larger than 6 inches, unless it is a protected cruiser in which case it can have guns in single mountings up to 8 inches."
Since 2x2x7" and 2x2x8" AY has been a legal configuration for protected cruiser CLs since Rule the Waves 1 and since the configuration was included to represent certain older cruisers that remained in service at the turn of the century, I'd be more inclined to call that an inaccuracy in the manual than an indication of intent to change the rules in future versions of the game. Also, if you limit yourself to individually-mounted guns, the maximum legal caliber on a protected cruiser CL is 13 inches, with one gun in either the A or the Y position.
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Post by griffin01 on Jul 27, 2019 2:46:30 GMT -6
Twin 7" or 8" guns are permissible in the A and Y positions on CLs using the protected cruiser armor configuration.
I'm afraid I'm not so hot for the 7" guns as to build protected cruisers after 10's
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Post by aeson on Jul 27, 2019 7:17:24 GMT -6
I'm afraid I'm not so hot for the 7" guns as to build protected cruisers after 10's Then build a small CA instead: Costs about as much as a CL, is armored more or less like a CL, carries 7" guns, and mostly seems to be handled by the game more like a big CL than a big CA, at least in my experience with it.
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