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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 25, 2019 12:28:12 GMT -6
Issue_____________ :There is a discrepancy between in-game allowed armament for Protected Cruisers (CL), and the manual.
Game ... lets me do 2-gun 8" main turrets:
Manual Says "main gun calibre cannot be larger than 6 inches, unless it is a protected cruiser in which case it can have guns in single mountings up to 8 inches."
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Post by mycophobia on Jul 25, 2019 12:42:13 GMT -6
I think this might be more a manual bug than a game bug since twin 8" protected cruiser was in RTW 1 AFAIK.
There are no protected cruiser with turreted twin 8" AFAIK, but the Chinese Jiyuan class do have twin barbette mounted 8" guns.
I don't think its a stretch for protected cruiser to mount twin 7/8in guns in turrets.
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Post by aeson on Jul 25, 2019 15:15:28 GMT -6
There are no protected cruiser with turreted twin 8" AFAIK, but the Chinese Jiyuan class do have twin barbette mounted 8" guns USS Olympia would be an example of a protected cruiser with fore-and-aft 8" twin turrets, though these were replaced with more modern but lighter guns later in its service life.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Nov 15, 2019 4:10:12 GMT -6
This issue is still present in the v1.11 (VERSION 1.0 (5b)) manual!
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Post by wlbjork on Nov 15, 2019 5:13:00 GMT -6
Pretty sure it's supposed to be 8" twins, or up to 13" singles.
Yes, there's quite a bit needs tweaking in the manual.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Nov 15, 2019 5:30:23 GMT -6
The game wouldn't let me do anything above 8", even in single gun turrets. So no 13" protected cruiser ;-)
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Post by aeson on Nov 15, 2019 21:50:58 GMT -6
So no 13" protected cruiser ;-) I wouldn't be so certain about that: Is it useful? Probably not. Is it legal? Yes, it is - as long as you only try to mount one main battery gun. The gun can be in either the A or the Y position - doesn't matter which - and it can be any caliber from 9" to 13".
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Nov 16, 2019 4:36:14 GMT -6
Lol, I didn't try literally one single gun ...
Would be potentially devastating but wouldn't hit s***, right, because of the small salvo modifier on top of the poor fire control on those early ships?!
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Post by dorn on Nov 16, 2019 5:13:25 GMT -6
Lol, I didn't try literally one single gun ...
Would be potentially devastating but wouldn't hit s***, right, because of the small salvo modifier on top of the poor fire control on those early ships?! It is useless as against cruiser it is too large and against battleship you have no chance.
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Post by wlbjork on Nov 16, 2019 5:17:22 GMT -6
Not early game, but how about late game when the 3" max armour is far less useful coupled with the high accuracy from upgrades? For that matter, I've seen...interesting results from 8" armed CLs early game.
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Post by aeson on Nov 16, 2019 9:47:38 GMT -6
Not early game, but how about late game when the 3" max armour is far less useful coupled with the high accuracy from upgrades? You still won't have very good odds of hitting the target with your single 9"-13" gun, the armor penetration that the gun offers is probably wildly in excess of anything that you actually need unless maybe you're trying to fight a battleship, the weight of broadside isn't really any better than you'd have with about a dozen 6" or four 8" guns, and the overall rate of fire is pitiful by comparison to more normal cruiser armaments - especially once autoloaders enter the picture. You'll probably get more value out of a 9"-13" CL's secondary battery than out of its main battery even before you get secondary directors for CLs.
Also, heavier guns tend to be more useful when armor is relatively more effective than when armor is relatively less effective - armor penetration is one of the two big advantages of a heavier gun, but if a lighter, faster-firing gun still offers as much armor penetration as you actually need for the targets that you're engaging then the heavier gun doesn't actually have a practical advantage there.
I tend to find 7"-8" CLs are at their best between about 1910 and 1920 - much earlier than that and fire control isn't good enough for 8" guns to have much of a practical range or armor penetration advantage over 6" guns while much later than that and the 8" CLs just don't have enough guns to compete with modern 6" CLs, and anyways protected cruisers don't have that much armor to hit in the first place.
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Post by colprice on Nov 19, 2019 16:10:46 GMT -6
The most effective Russian CA I've produced was UK built in the early 1900s: 3 triple 10" (grade 1) in A,V,Y with 4" armour and 29 knots.
The effective gun range was about 1/2 of the maximum, largely due to the central range finder. However, with upgrades to weapons and fire control still a great CA, though other CAs are getting close to its match.
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Post by noshurviverse on Nov 19, 2019 18:22:25 GMT -6
I actually ran a campaign with the single 13" CLs and I found them to be essentially worthless. Their rate of fire is measured in minutes per round rather than the other way around and the accuracy is terrible. However, I did find some use in tearing that 13" gun out and replacing it with a dual 10" turret, which actually made these 4-5k ton CLs worth something. Much less than my traditional 4x7" designs, but still decent.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Aug 22, 2020 1:01:32 GMT -6
Fixed in RTW2 Game Manual 1.16 .
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