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Post by sittingduck on Jul 26, 2019 10:42:37 GMT -6
Playing as US and I just discovered that submarines appear to actually "age" in this game! Reopened a game as US and trying to refresh my memory as to what was happening when last played, I checked my Submarine tab because I thought the Naval Secretary may have required my building some Subs... Nope, but I was surprised to see the Reliability of some of my current Subs seemed to be degrading, apparently early subs were getting worse with age.
Version 1.06. I haven't any idea of the rate of decreased Reliability but it does drop. No wonder submarine losses seemed to climb so high as the game progresses... anyone serving in an old boat was about to become a statistic! Those boats will sink at the pier! It's 1938 when I noticed the decrease, particularly with the first generations of Coastal Boats. I'd never notice this before and didn't see any mention of it in a quick glance at the manual. Makes sense but if this is the case should rebuilds also be available? Also, do any Tech advances actually apply to these earlier subs, as I'd assumed, or does the advance only apply to the next build of subs?
Is this something other folks have found and has anyone commented on this? Thanks again.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Jul 26, 2019 11:14:37 GMT -6
Never have seen the reliability of boats in service actually drop.
Newer boats will have higher reliability, according to the researched techs.
Older boats are not refitted, but have to be replaced.
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Post by sittingduck on Jul 26, 2019 12:25:16 GMT -6
Never have seen the reliability of boats in service actually drop.
Newer boats will have higher reliability, according to the researched techs.
Older boats are not refitted, but have to be replaced.
I'd never noticed a drop in Reliability before today. It definitely drops in 1.06. Two years deeper (1942) and all subs built in 1916 and earlier are getting even less Reliable. It's kind of neat though. Submarines had always been a "Buy and Forget" for me but this means that if a player wants to use large numbers of subs he'll have to keep replacing them, if only for the decline of Reliability. Newer does NOT apply to older submarines then. Foolish me for thinking Increased Range or other Techs were Retrofitted to older subs. Lesson learned. I guess one way to look at this is similar to Coastal Patrol ships in RTW1 but instead of auto-scrapping after several years Submarines now start "fading away" after 30 or so years in service.
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Post by rodentnavy on Jul 26, 2019 12:44:21 GMT -6
Never have seen the reliability of boats in service actually drop.
Newer boats will have higher reliability, according to the researched techs.
Older boats are not refitted, but have to be replaced.
I'd never noticed a drop in Reliability before today. It definitely drops in 1.06. Two years deeper (1942) and all subs built in 1916 and earlier are getting even less Reliable. It's kind of neat though. Submarines had always been a "Buy and Forget" for me but this means that if a player wants to use large numbers of subs he'll have to keep replacing them, if only for the decline of Reliability. Newer does NOT apply to older submarines then. Foolish me for thinking Increased Range or other Techs were Retrofitted to older subs. Lesson learned. I guess one way to look at this is similar to Coastal Patrol ships in RTW1 but instead of auto-scrapping after several years Submarines now start "fading away" after 30 or so years in service. It has been a feature since the dawn of RTW2 so far as I am aware, rather than go obsolete your boats gradually decline in availability, something I quite like.
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Post by dyermaker on Jul 27, 2019 14:28:32 GMT -6
If this is true it is fantastic in my opinion. It's a much needed balancing factor for the AI nations that get defeated in early wars, & then just build subs for the remainder of the game. If this is actually true, then bravo I say to Fredrik & team!
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Post by sittingduck on Jul 27, 2019 21:15:28 GMT -6
If this is true it is fantastic in my opinion. It's a much needed balancing factor for the AI nations that get defeated in early wars, & then just build subs for the remainder of the game. If this is actually true, then bravo I say to Fredrik & team! I noticed it around 1936/1938, and started looking after that. It seemed that after a certain number of years in service, let's say 25 or 30, the Reliability would start dropping on the subs of a certain build year. Example being in 1940 the old subs built in 1916 were dropping a percentage point of Reliability. Not all at the same time/rate, but they'd start getting lower. I agree that it's a good thing. I'm one of those who'd build 10 or so subs every 5 or 6 years and then 10-20 at the start of a war plus replacements so I'd have 70 plus almost all the time. "Buy and forget". Knowing this now, I have to keep buying "fresh" ones to supplant the ones rotting away in service and probably contributing to my own losses in war. I had never noticed or noted anyone mentioning it. It's not a bad thing, but a new slant within the game.
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Post by dyermaker on Jul 28, 2019 7:13:59 GMT -6
In my own case I've never noticed it because I've always had a policy of scrapping old subs when their reliability rating is more than 20 less than the new generation. I've almost always had a very lean & mean cadre of subs as a result, but this obviously doesn't apply to the AI fleets. It's nice to know that there is a factor working against some of the AI fleets that go with submarine primacy and field 200+ subs, some of which can be upwards of 30 years old.
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