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Post by kriegsmeister on Aug 3, 2019 14:34:19 GMT -6
Hi there, New here, been playing the game for a couple of weeks after stumbling across TortugaPower on YouTube and absolutely loving it. The ability to combine my love of strategy games and designing weapons and machines of war has me completely entranced and reinspired my interest in naval construction that began in my younger years growing up in the Hampton Roads area and it's massive shipbuilding and naval presence and history.
With that it started to strike me as pretty odd of the seemingly fantastic design scheme of all-forward armament but it's general rarity in actual history. The only drawbacks that I could come up with are the inability to shoot directly aft and lower theoretical maximum gun limit (irl the Nelson and Richeliou/Dunkerque classes were on par with other designs with 9 and 8 guns each, and ingame a max of a "measely" 12 guns)
Were there any other flaws that I'm missing that prevented their prevalence IRL and reasons to not build only All-forward ships ingame?
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Post by dorn on Aug 3, 2019 14:48:25 GMT -6
Welcome to this form.
There is risk that one hit can destroy or disable both forward turrets. In case you use 2 turrets with 4 guns as French battleships you take risk being without main battery after one lucky hit.
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Post by orkel on Aug 3, 2019 15:27:34 GMT -6
Yeah, even non-penetrating hits will usually disable the gun temporarily if the impacting shell is large enough. There's a high risk of losing half or all of your firepower with 1-2 hits.
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 3, 2019 15:33:01 GMT -6
When you don’t have a clearly superiority and may need to disengage, the inability to shoot back can be pretty problematic. Also, early triple and quad are prone to malfunction and jamming, and the tech to fix these issue may sometime get skipped.
As a result, all forward arrangement is generally more vulnerable to losing their fire power( the same issue more or less applies to normal ABX arrangement too, but all forward ship almost always rely on triple/quad turret)
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Post by tbr on Aug 3, 2019 16:03:26 GMT -6
If you compare three turret designs A-V-Y has all turrets individually situated so that no single hit can take out two of them. And two turrets firing in the aft sector is better for disengaging...
That said, I prefer all forward three turret designs.
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Post by dohboy on Aug 3, 2019 16:53:25 GMT -6
I never use all forward because I am almost always outnumbered and running away in the beginning of major battles (because I overbuild my capital ships with armor and horsepower, and I tend to play the underdog countries). I try to keep the angle open for the forward turrets, but often I have to run straight away to open the range to where I want it. If I can do some damage to some of the chasers and slow them down I can mousetrap a few of the leading ships (preferably right before the sun sets) and withdraw without taking serious damage. All forward would be great for forcing the fur-ball, but the fur-ball hurts.
Build your ships to fit the tactics you intend to use. Then try not to forget the plan as soon as you sight the enemy, that's where I usually get myself into trouble.
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Post by kaguya on Aug 3, 2019 17:52:01 GMT -6
I used to use all forward 2 x4 (French style) until I had two 24"/8" armored turrets be completely destroyed in a single turn rendering an entire battleship useless
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Post by exgavalonnj on Aug 3, 2019 19:41:11 GMT -6
I used to use all forward 2 x4 (French style) until I had two 24"/8" armored turrets be completely destroyed in a single turn rendering an entire battleship useless I had this happen a lot in my latest Germany game. IDK if the patches changed something but one shell kept knocking out both front turrets on my BB's repetitively.
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Post by ulzgoroth on Aug 4, 2019 0:17:36 GMT -6
I've not found the stern fire gap a big problem. Low turret count is bad, but...I find it very worthwhile when I'm trying to build battleships with immunity zones to end-game 16"+ guns.
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Post by rimbecano on Aug 4, 2019 5:15:19 GMT -6
I never use all forward because I am almost always outnumbered and running away in the beginning of major battles (because I overbuild my capital ships with armor and horsepower, and I tend to play the underdog countries). I use, specifically, a 2x3 AB configuration. Six guns are all you really need to maintain accurate fire, and as long as you can land shots on target the important thing is penetrating power and bursting charge size, not number of shells, so you can shave weight off by using 6 guns instead of 8+. When you get the tech for the short citadel bonus, you get further weight savings, so in the end you end up with the performance of a much larger ship without the price tag, such makes it all the more critical fo small nations.
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Post by kaguya on Aug 4, 2019 9:53:22 GMT -6
I never use all forward because I am almost always outnumbered and running away in the beginning of major battles (because I overbuild my capital ships with armor and horsepower, and I tend to play the underdog countries). I use, specifically, a 2x3 AB configuration. Six guns are all you really need to maintain accurate fire, and as long as you can land shots on target the important thing is penetrating power and bursting charge size, not number of shells, so you can shave weight off by using 6 guns instead of 8+. When you get the tech for the short citadel bonus, you get further weight savings, so in the end you end up with the performance of a much larger ship without the price tag, such makes it all the more critical fo small nations. I've found a good use for many guns of smaller size in disabling turrets. The sheer volume of shells means multiple hits per turn, and since each hit, penetrating or not, can knock out a whole turret you bring down their firepower far faster
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Post by dorn on Aug 4, 2019 10:26:10 GMT -6
I am trying to do some statistics about turrets hits on battleship by heavy guns as it seems to me be too often. I will see later as I expect at least 1000-2000 hits to have some realiable data. But it seems quite high, I would not expect to be about 20 % when ships has 2-4 turrets. Certainly the angle of hit has impact on probability of hit but still ...
If you look at Richelieu class than from top than turrets is much less than 10 %, from side certainly much less than 5 %. I will continue and we can see but it seems to me that turret hits are more often than they should be.
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Post by dyermaker on Aug 4, 2019 16:15:59 GMT -6
I cannot speak for everyone, but in my case I refrain from using all forward main armament unless I have developed improved triple or quadruple turrets. If those techs are delayed I stay with traditional turret layout schemes as they are generally more versatile and able to sustain outgoing fire even after taking a few turret hits from the enemy. As others have pointed out, sometimes taking an unlucky shell from the enemy can disable or destroy more than one turret at a time.
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Post by generalvikus on Aug 4, 2019 23:39:00 GMT -6
I never use all forward because I am almost always outnumbered and running away in the beginning of major battles (because I overbuild my capital ships with armor and horsepower, and I tend to play the underdog countries). I use, specifically, a 2x3 AB configuration. Six guns are all you really need to maintain accurate fire, and as long as you can land shots on target the important thing is penetrating power and bursting charge size, not number of shells, so you can shave weight off by using 6 guns instead of 8+. When you get the tech for the short citadel bonus, you get further weight savings, so in the end you end up with the performance of a much larger ship without the price tag, such makes it all the more critical fo small nations. My general rule is '6 guns +1 turret' so that ideally six guns will always be firing even when one turret is disabled. EDIT: On a similar note, it's worth remembering that, with an A/B/Y arrangement, in any circumstance in which only the Y turret is firing, you'll take an accuracy penalty for firing a small salvo. It could be argued that, at least in certain situations, you'd be better off saving the ammunition and waiting until you can fire accurately with a full salvo.
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Post by BathTubAdmiral on Aug 5, 2019 1:02:58 GMT -6
... in any circumstance in which only the Y turret is firing, you'll take an accuracy penalty for firing a small salvo. Ah, what???
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