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Post by orkel on Aug 13, 2019 9:31:13 GMT -6
Historically, some battleships (Yamato and Iowa come to mind) actually had a tighter turning radius than the average destroyer of their time. In this game however, BB/BCs are all very clumsy in turning around, with no exceptions, compared to destroyers which do 180's like jet skis.
An easy way to help balance out the currently dominating yolo DD torpedo spam tactics would be to make their turning radius considerably larger.
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 13, 2019 9:42:17 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, where can one find informations on the turning radius of various ships? It can make for a interesting read.
Regarding in game behaviour, DD do feel slightly too maneuverable, though given their high speed it may not be too odd for them to complete a turn faster than a BB even with a longer turning radius.
As for game balance, I think it’s the main strength of DD rush is basically their player controlled fearlessness, which not something I see the game removing given that’s a integral part of playing on captain and rear admiral mode. Reducing DD maneuverability may help somewhat, but is unlikely to be significant.
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Post by seawolf on Aug 13, 2019 10:16:27 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, where can do find informations on the turning radius of various ships? It can make for a interesting read. Regarding in game behaviour, DD do feel slightly too maneuverable, though given their high speed it may not be too odd for them to complete a turn faster than a BB even if a longer turning radius. As for game balance, I think it’s the main strength of DD rush is basically their player controlled fearlessness, which not something I see the game removing given that’s a integral part of playing on captain and rear admiral mode. Reducing DD maneuverability may help somewhat, but is unlikely to be significant. That's completely historic as Samar showed, a fearless destroyer can take on any other ship I think someone found if there had been a larger task force with the same aggressiveness they could have wiped out the Japanese capital ships simply from swarming fletcher class |
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Post by noshurviverse on Aug 13, 2019 12:06:02 GMT -6
That's completely historic as Samar showed, a fearless destroyer can take on any other ship I think someone found if there had been a larger task force with the same aggressiveness they could have wiped out the Japanese capital ships simply from swarming fletcher class I feel that Samar was a bit of an extreme case, where the crews of those DDs knew that if they didn't hold back the Japanese task force the American escort carriers and landing forces were going to suffer gruesome losses. The weather also played to their advantage and some rather poor coordination among the Japanese leadership severely reduced their effectiveness. As far as the issue of DDs being rather too effective when "piloted" in Captain/Rear Admiral, I think a solution would be to make incoming fire apply a disruption effect similar to how AAA fire works, where if a ship takes a significant amount of incoming fire it reverts to AI control and attempts to take action to retreat or something similar. |
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 13, 2019 12:13:53 GMT -6
Out of curiosity, where can do find informations on the turning radius of various ships? It can make for a interesting read. Regarding in game behaviour, DD do feel slightly too maneuverable, though given their high speed it may not be too odd for them to complete a turn faster than a BB even if a longer turning radius. As for game balance, I think it’s the main strength of DD rush is basically their player controlled fearlessness, which not something I see the game removing given that’s a integral part of playing on captain and rear admiral mode. Reducing DD maneuverability may help somewhat, but is unlikely to be significant. That's completely historic as Samar showed, a fearless destroyer can take on any other ship I think someone found if there had been a larger task force with the same aggressiveness they could have wiped out the Japanese capital ships simply from swarming fletcher class I have no qualms with Destroyers acting as they did Samar, and if anything that makes for good story telling as your heroic destroyer charged into the enemy line, causing havoc as they did in Samar. The problem is that it does not happen in every engagement, and in Samar most of the destroyers partaking in the charge did not survive(which is what happens in game as well). As a result I don't think its realistic to imagine that every battle can end up with destroyers making these heroic charges(for example, it certainly didn't happen in Jutland). That said, being part of Captain/Admiral mode, removing to direct the ships as we do now will have serious impact on the player's experience with those mods. I think the game does a fine job depicting how a fearless destroyer charge would went, its just that player intervention can make things somewhat ahistorical, which I don't mind all that much personally. The "Ship Reverting to AI control" is not a bad idea, especially on Rear-Admiral mode. As being underfire already impact accuracy, I think Captain mode can be left as is. |
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Post by mobeer on Aug 13, 2019 12:52:10 GMT -6
It seems in game that destroyers turn too fast and maybe also that big ships accelerate (and slow) too quickly. Lots of posts online suggest that Iowa could turn tighter than a Fletcher class destroyer.
I have also found some older data on cruisers which shows considerable variation between ships according to their design. Not sure how (or if) that could be included in game, but it at least shows that a larger ship may turn tighter than a smaller ship:
Astraea = 650 yards, 4360 long ton protected cruiser, 1890s
Orlando = 566 yards, 5600 ton armoured cruiser, 1890s
Arrogant = 380 yards, 5750 long ton protected cruiser, 1890s, twin rudders
Diadem = 914 yards, 11000 ton protected cruiser, 1900s
Cressy = 671 yards, 12000 ton armoured cruiser, 1900s, larger rudder than Diadem
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Post by director on Aug 13, 2019 14:24:21 GMT -6
The classic destroyer actions of the Pacific War are around Guadalcanal and in that area. Both the IJN and (after they were cut loose to operate independently) the USN showed they could handle DDs and bigger ehips.
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swang
Junior Member
Posts: 97 
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Post by swang on Aug 13, 2019 20:58:35 GMT -6
When you say turning radius, at what speed? a 25 kn DD will take a larger circle than an 18 kn DD. and I'd imagine the DD running at 18 kn will turn smaller than a B running at 18 kn.
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Post by arminpfano on Aug 15, 2019 1:53:07 GMT -6
A feature I like (and which I think is historical correct) is that all ships slow down at turning. This makes DD torp attacks a little more difficult, even in Captain mode. A switch back to AI command would ruin the player experience at Captain mode, but maybe the torpedo accuracy could be lowered when under heavy fire.
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Post by kotori87 on Aug 15, 2019 10:05:31 GMT -6
What's really ruining torpedo accuracy is the "friendly ship in line of fire" message. I could have two destroyers in line, no other friendly ships in the scenario, and be surrounded by enemies. Can I shoot? No, the lead ship thinks the tail ship is in the way, and the tail ship thinks the lead ship is in the way. Hoist the flotilla attack order, and not a single ship is able to launch because of "friendly ship in line of fire". The AI's inability to launch deliberate torpedo attacks is the entire reason I play captain mode, because it's the only way I can *sometimes* get a torpedo attack off.
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