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Post by ulzgoroth on Aug 27, 2019 0:49:15 GMT -6
In my current game, I have only CVL (my first CV is about 8 months out) and have seen all three of: -Carrier integrated into main force. -All carriers in separate carrier force. -Carriers split between main force and carrier force.
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jatzi
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by jatzi on Aug 27, 2019 9:14:43 GMT -6
You know you can just set a carrier task force to support your capital ships and they'll provide CAP for them. I've only ever had problems with CAP not being around due to them refueling/rearming. And about the strikes returning after one or two passes. Again this hasn't been a massive problem for me. Most of my strikes hit and when they don't I can often just push or draw the enemy close enough that my strikes notice them. Not saying the ideas in here aren't great, they're good ideas, but you guys are kinda being over the top with this whole I'm not gonna play till this stuff is fixed thing. They don't kill the game. The problem is when "Carrier force" arises. The issue is that any carriers in the carrier force cannot "just set a carrier task force to support your capital ships" - support missions targets are only available for divisions that are in the same force as you are, and your capital ships are typically in the main force. That being said, there's two ways to mitigate this: 1) Have CVL around. These tend to go into the main force. 2) Late game (35-ish on) in this last campaign I've found CV are showing up in divisions in the main force as well, either completely without a Carrier Force, or in addition to a Carrier Force. So it seems like the battle generator is now doing a reasonable job of putting air support in the main force. I've had carrier forces put CAP over a separate battle line. Maybe that was a bug, maybe they weren't a separate carrier force like I thought they were, idk. But like I said I've never had an issue with CAP not being around when it's supposed to be so.
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Post by dizzy on Aug 27, 2019 9:55:25 GMT -6
Ladies and gentlemen, please! It’s never wise to use work-arounds to excuse non-working game elements. In this case, CAP should provide customized levels of air cover to all divisions regardless of advancements in tech level. It does not. Do not excuse this problem with work-arounds.
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Post by entropyembrace on Aug 29, 2019 22:33:10 GMT -6
The problem is when "Carrier force" arises. The issue is that any carriers in the carrier force cannot "just set a carrier task force to support your capital ships" - support missions targets are only available for divisions that are in the same force as you are, and your capital ships are typically in the main force. That being said, there's two ways to mitigate this: 1) Have CVL around. These tend to go into the main force. 2) Late game (35-ish on) in this last campaign I've found CV are showing up in divisions in the main force as well, either completely without a Carrier Force, or in addition to a Carrier Force. So it seems like the battle generator is now doing a reasonable job of putting air support in the main force. I've had carrier forces put CAP over a separate battle line. Maybe that was a bug, maybe they weren't a separate carrier force like I thought they were, idk. But like I said I've never had an issue with CAP not being around when it's supposed to be so. I think you're getting confused because what you described is the behavior BEFORE you unlock the Separate Carrier Force tech. The confusion might be because the carriers get their own squadron so they have their own red flag, but you can still attach them to your lead squadron or some other squadron and set them to support. After you unlock the Separate Carrier Force tech the carriers spawn further away in their own task force and are no longer able to be attached to squadrons in your main surface task force and then no longer provide CAP for your surface fleet. IF you have enough CVLs they can sometimes be assigned to your surface task force to provide CAP but this only seems to happen if there are enough CVLs or CVs for the separate carrier task force. If there are insufficient carriers the CVLs will be assigned to the separate task force and be unable to provide CAP for your surface fleet.
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Post by sloanjh on Aug 30, 2019 0:19:00 GMT -6
There is one way to get CAP from your carrier force: Drive the BB division(s) right in the middle of it. This give CAP for the BBs and AA for the CVs - two way win. Of course you don't want to engage enemy BB or BC in this configuration.
I got rid of all my CVL and only have CV now, and have been getting decent behaviors in terms of where the battle generator puts the CV. I've had several battles where there was no Carrier force - just a couple of CV in the main group. I also get a decent split between Main and Carrier in terms of how many each gets. I only remember a single engagement where I had a Carrier force and didn't get any carriers for my main body.
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jatzi
Full Member
Posts: 123
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Post by jatzi on Aug 30, 2019 10:29:35 GMT -6
I've had carrier forces put CAP over a separate battle line. Maybe that was a bug, maybe they weren't a separate carrier force like I thought they were, idk. But like I said I've never had an issue with CAP not being around when it's supposed to be so. I think you're getting confused because what you described is the behavior BEFORE you unlock the Separate Carrier Force tech. The confusion might be because the carriers get their own squadron so they have their own red flag, but you can still attach them to your lead squadron or some other squadron and set them to support. After you unlock the Separate Carrier Force tech the carriers spawn further away in their own task force and are no longer able to be attached to squadrons in your main surface task force and then no longer provide CAP for your surface fleet. IF you have enough CVLs they can sometimes be assigned to your surface task force to provide CAP but this only seems to happen if there are enough CVLs or CVs for the separate carrier task force. If there are insufficient carriers the CVLs will be assigned to the separate task force and be unable to provide CAP for your surface fleet. I know what I was describing. It's mostly because carriers weren't being put into separate carrier task forces. I have a lot of carriers and they usually get brought in as both or as a support element. I've also just put escort missions up around my battle line to provide additional CAP. There's a solution to your problem right there anyways. Just put a light CAP up around your carriers and put the rest up on an escort mission around your battleships. Honestly in battles where it's carrier vs carrier I usually keep my battle line near my carriers anyways; regardless of whether they're a separate task force or not. Doing that gives you extra AA, concentrated CAP; it helps a lot.
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Post by dohboy on Aug 30, 2019 11:40:11 GMT -6
I don't want my battle group hiding under the carrier's CAP. I want them getting into the advantageous position to finish off every last one of the ships that put to sea against me while my bombers soften them up, maybe between said fleet and their port, maybe pushing them against a coastline. I can tell you one place that is NOT the advantageous position, 50 miles away hiding under mommy's skirts. I also don't want to send a bunch of fighters to a place my force won't be in an hour. I don't want a cheese-**** half solution. I want a real fix.
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Post by sloanjh on Aug 30, 2019 15:40:42 GMT -6
I don't want my battle group hiding under the carrier's CAP. I want them getting into the advantageous position to finish off every last one of the ships that put to sea against me while my bombers soften them up, maybe between said fleet and their port, maybe pushing them against a coastline. I can tell you one place that is NOT the advantageous position, 50 miles away hiding under mommy's skirts. I also don't want to send a bunch of fighters to a place my force won't be in an hour. I don't want a cheese-**** half solution. I want a real fix. I don't disagree, in fact I agree with the underlying desire for the issue. But in the meantime I don't want to stop playing the game, and my personal experience (others' mileage may differ ) has been that this issue usually doesn't have a strong impact on my game experience in terms of doing exactly the sorts of things you mention, since in most situations I have enough F on the CV that are in the main force to be able to provide sufficient CAP to my battle line. By sharing my experiences I am not advocating against a fix, I am merely trying to help others with coping strategies to help deal with the current reality, and to share my perception of what that current reality is. For example, another aspect of the issue (which I consider to be "unable to target divisions outside your force with support missions") is that I can't tell my main force to support my carriers so that they can have better AA coverage, in the cases where my main "kill" mechanism is going to be airstrikes instead of gunnery and so that I don't have to dilute my CAP by covering two TG. It's a real pain to try and keep the BB sailing with the CV by hand, especially when the CV randomly turn into the wind and when HAA range isn't all that large.
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Post by dohboy on Aug 30, 2019 16:12:15 GMT -6
I don't want to stop playing either. I was ready to for a few minutes, I settled on getting rid of the separate carrier force tech and I'm mollified enough with the results to keep at it, but I ain't happy yet. I just don't want the "it's all good" posts convincing the developers that this isn't an issue.
I really want to be able to build my own task force. Use the ships I build for the purpose they were designed to perform. Put the "Parthian" style BCs I built in the scouting force where I want them instead of screening the CVs. Add a few support CVLs to my scout force. All the stuff an Admiral is supposed to do before the battle starts.
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