blur
New Member
Posts: 24
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Post by blur on Aug 27, 2019 16:28:11 GMT -6
In my last game I decided to jump the AI's bandwagon in the late 40s with a few autoloaded 16x8" + 16x6" DP CAs of 18000 tons. The idea was to use them in the active fleet together with my carriers. I regret that choice immensely. While they are significantly cheaper than a BC/fast BB, their 6" belt could just as well be made of paper. In their first battle, 2 of them were lost sinking 3 of the enemy's CAs of roughly equal total tonnage. That's a resounding slap considering the old BCs I scrapped would have wiped the floor with them. I still like the idea of lategame pocket battleships with lots of autoloaded 8" and 6" guns, but they obviously would have to be far more heavily armored. Perhaps something of about 25000 tons would do the trick, but that definitely wouldn't be classed as CA anymore. Or maybe reduce the 8" guns to an all-forward AB scheme.
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Post by blackvoid on Aug 27, 2019 17:34:01 GMT -6
I build 18Kt CAs with 9-12 8" guns (depending on tech 3x3 or 3x4 to maintain 32 knots), 8" belt, 10" turrets and 32Kts speed. They are good all around ships and cheaper than BCs. 32 knots is usually enough to run away from enemy BCs.
My endeavour into 10x6" DP autoloader AA CAs was met with a similar disaster. Got wiped out by regular 8" CAs.
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Post by dorn on Aug 27, 2019 23:18:15 GMT -6
From early 20s, sometimes even earlier, I consider torpedoes on CLs as important as guns and armour.
Relating to large CA and CL more than around 15000 tons I found them just too expensive for any job. At bad weather they are not much better but the risk is higher and for a little more money you can have battlecruiser which can eat them easily and can be useful in limited way even against capital ships.
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Post by zedfifty on Aug 28, 2019 1:33:29 GMT -6
How do you guys protect your super-cruisers from aircraft? CAs are large enough to be airstrike targets, but too small to afford the torpedo protection and deck armor of a battleship. Also, how much torpedo protection do you give a CA/CL?
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blur
New Member
Posts: 24
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Post by blur on Aug 28, 2019 2:49:36 GMT -6
From early 20s, sometimes even earlier, I consider torpedoes on CLs as important as guns and armour. I've designed several classes of broadside torpedo CLs starting in the 20s. Since I can't make the AI follow my intended doctrine they were merely okay - instead of firing a full broadside at the enemy battle line and retreating they fired a couple torpedoes at a time which rarely hit anything. Their gun armament was terrible for a CL and hardly better than a heavy destroyer's. But they were very useful in night battles and to finish off crippled capitals. If I had to redesign them I would leave two torpedo mounts on each side and replace the rest with 6" guns. Also, I consider torpedoes on surface ships mostly obsolete with the advent of fire control radar. The AI hardly uses BBs and BCs anymore, and those that exist are easily sunk by aerial torpedoes. Enemy CAs are seldom worth a torpedo charge if you could simply destroy them with some heavy guns. And the biggest advantage, being able to quickly fire a devastating close-range salvo at night, is negated since FC radar allows ships to fire their guns much earlier, whereas torpedoes to my knowledge still require a visual contact. Perhaps missiles will fill that role once they're introduced. Attachments:
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Post by blackvoid on Aug 28, 2019 14:57:45 GMT -6
How do you guys protect your super-cruisers from aircraft? CAs are large enough to be airstrike targets, but too small to afford the torpedo protection and deck armor of a battleship. Also, how much torpedo protection do you give a CA/CL? Tier2 torp protection. 4 AA directors. all AA artillery is medium. 8x2 5" DPs. They still get dive bombed, some near misses from MBs, but i never saw them torpedoed. 4 of them together plus 8 DDs are usually immune from all but huge coordinated airstrikes. I usually skip the battles near enemy airpower concentrations.
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Post by blackvoid on Aug 28, 2019 15:00:27 GMT -6
From early 20s, sometimes even earlier, I consider torpedoes on CLs as important as guns and armour. I've designed several classes of broadside torpedo CLs starting in the 20s. I also had some 4x4s on my CAs with reloads but after several devastating explosion from DD shells, stopped doing that.
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 28, 2019 15:03:15 GMT -6
I've designed several classes of broadside torpedo CLs starting in the 20s. I also had some 4x4s on my CAs with reloads but after several devastating explosion from DD shells, stopped doing that. Just curious, do you also use oxygen torpedo? I usually puts 2x4 on CAs and didn't have much issue, maybe reload also makes it more likely to get torp explosion?
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Post by blackvoid on Aug 28, 2019 15:57:00 GMT -6
I also had some 4x4s on my CAs with reloads but after several devastating explosion from DD shells, stopped doing that. Just curious, do you also use oxygen torpedo? I usually puts 2x4 on CAs and didn't have much issue, maybe reload also makes it more likely to get torp explosion? Yes. Oxygen torps with reloads. Can't recall right now if they offer better speed or range, but I thought that they make more sense on CAs as engagement ranges are longer.
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Post by mycophobia on Aug 28, 2019 16:00:18 GMT -6
Just curious, do you also use oxygen torpedo? I usually puts 2x4 on CAs and didn't have much issue, maybe reload also makes it more likely to get torp explosion? Yes. Oxygen torps with reloads. Can't recall right now if they offer better speed or range, but I thought that they make more sense on CAs as engagement ranges are longer. Main problem is they are historically highly explosive, and that is reflected in game. If I use them for my DDs I generally avoid putting tubes on my CAs for this reason. Oxygen propelled torpedo allows for longer range/higher speed for longer range, or more explosive power since less fuel is required to achieve the same range. I don't quite remember which of these effect the game models ( I suspect its probably a all around improvement), but personally I feel even with all these benefits they are too risky to go on expensive CAs.
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Post by blackvoid on Aug 28, 2019 16:03:23 GMT -6
Yes. Oxygen torps with reloads. Can't recall right now if they offer better speed or range, but I thought that they make more sense on CAs as engagement ranges are longer. ... but personally I feel even with all these benefits they are too risky to go on expensive CAs. Well, I had to learn this one the hard way.
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Post by dorn on Aug 28, 2019 23:04:10 GMT -6
I do use torpedoes on CA but usually only 1 mounts on each side. Their main offensive punch are guns. And they are too expensive to risk them to close capital ships. For such tasks are destroyers.
It is completely different for CLs, I use reloads to have at least six fishes on both side. My CLs are usually around 7000 tons, cheap and expendable. Principles are fight light ships (other CLs and DDs) with their guns, everything else with torpedoes. At night or very bad weather their 6" guns are handy too.
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