Peace Results in too much budget loss & Too many white peace

[serenity]

I am playing Britain around 1930, and I was winning the war, and decided to press for hard terms. Unfortunately, I got no territory. This has happened several times in my most recent play through.
In this war I had a budget of 850, and then at the end of the war my budget was reduced to 350! This reduction is far too much.

[noshurviverse]

Well great, internet stutter ate my post, I'll try and recreate it.

    Historically, both of these things did occur. Despite utterly destroying practically the entire Russian fleet, the Japanese got rather poor concessions in the aftermath. This lead to a significant amount of unrest at home, largely because while the people had heard stories of how soundly the Russians were being beaten, most didn't see the economic issues that were on the horizon. After WW1, Italy expected to be awarded certain territories, only to find the Allied Powers had already promised those to other nations and so they got very little. As for the budget, the United States Navy was practically gutted after WW2, to the point that when the Korean War broke out President Truman had to be told the Navy literally could not enforce a naval blockade around the country because so many ships were in mothballs or had been scrapped. And of course this largely came about because other services argued that the Navy was obsolete.

   "There's no reason for having a Navy and Marine Corps. General Bradley tells me that amphibious operations are a thing of the past. We'll never have any more amphibious operations. That does away with the Marine Corps. And the Air Force can do anything the Navy can do nowadays, so that does away with the Navy."
-Secretary of Defense, Louis Johnson

    I think a major reason this issue is so contentious is because Rule the Waves straddles a rather odd line between game and alt-history simulator. So you get aspects where it leans more heavily towards one of it's "faces" and that can seem out of place when you compare it to the system as a whole. It also means that something that's an problem for one person could very well be seen as a positive for another.

[JagdFlanker]

save the game before you end every turn, and if you don't agree with a war outcome, or any event or battle, just exit the game and do the turn again

since the turn resolves randomly every time sometimes you'l get a better turn result, or sometimes worse - chances are the war will continue, but you might get a better result in the future

if you are more concerned with having fun with the game and era then don't be afraid to sandbox to keep the campaign going in the general direction you want

[mobeer]

I agree this is a problem, I think because the "diplomats" focus too much on the past and not enough on the future.

For example as USA vs Japan:
1- Japan invades Lioatung Peninsular
2- Few battles where local US CLs run away, hence Japanese victories
3- Japan captures Lioatung Peninsular, US forces hold on to outskirts
4- Near entire US navy reaches Central Pacific
5- US politicians want to sue for peace hoping settlement won't be too bad??

Point 5 happens because the "diplomats" only look at the current point score, not allowing for what is going to happen next. Which for the record:

6- US blockades Japan
7- US battleship sinks Japanese battlecruiser
8- US forces regain Lioatung Peninsular
9- US invades South Korea
10- Japan begs for peace, cedes Formosa

[noshurviverse]

Aug 28, 2019 4:38:19 GMT -6 JagdFlanker said:

save the game before you end every turn, and if you don't agree with a war outcome, or any event or battle, just exit the game and do the turn again

since the turn resolves randomly every time sometimes you'l get a better turn result, or sometimes worse - chances are the war will continue, but you might get a better result in the future

if you are more concerned with having fun with the game and era then don't be afraid to sandbox to keep the campaign going in the general direction you want

I'd argue that crosses a certain line from working around a flawed mechanic to practically cheating. I mean, to each their own, but doing so would leave an extremely sour taste in my mouth.

[JagdFlanker]

Aug 28, 2019 21:02:12 GMT -6 noshurviverse said:

Aug 28, 2019 4:38:19 GMT -6 JagdFlanker said:

save the game before you end every turn, and if you don't agree with a war outcome, or any event or battle, just exit the game and do the turn again

since the turn resolves randomly every time sometimes you'l get a better turn result, or sometimes worse - chances are the war will continue, but you might get a better result in the future

if you are more concerned with having fun with the game and era then don't be afraid to sandbox to keep the campaign going in the general direction you want

I'd argue that crosses a certain line from working around a flawed mechanic to practically cheating. I mean, to each their own, but doing so would leave an extremely sour taste in my mouth.

100% agree, but it depends whether you play for an ironman challenge, or you play to have fun and whittle the time away in a historical setting you enjoy

not making excuses for "flawed mechanics", and i don't like having to re-do turns on occasion, but if it's to be called 'cheating' then 'cheating yourself' to continue your own fun isn't near as bad as cheating in a multi-player game

sometimes you 'gotta do what you gotta do'

[dorn]

There are too approaches to such difficult system.

You can define all main possibilities and program them. This has weakness that less important things are not included and is very time consuming proces. This rapidly increase with complexity of system as this one.

You have the second option to make abstract model. This is much easily done with weakness that it needs imagination and could give some random results which need always be implemented to such model.


I think option one was not possible for RTW. So there is the second option.

What is the question is how much should be random (which is sum of many factors which are abstracted) included in evaluation.

If you want to know it you need to make research evaluate wars and peace concessions.

What can be added in game is random texts of reasons for that but it does not change system, but it shows points. But still it is time consuming as you need several possibilities of all possible conflicts or again some system which simplified it.