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Post by dorn on Sept 18, 2019 14:50:24 GMT -6
Funny thing is, I was ringing the bell for esentially this same exact issue back in ~1.02. I'm rather glad that it came up again, dorn dipped into it and may get something out of it. My original recommendation was to drastically downscale land-based air capacity per base tier. We'll see if the team will cook up something. Issue is that ships are scaled down, but capacity of airbases are not. AI decision process goes well with decreased funds but not decision process for construction of coastal fortresses and building of airpower.
I will add this to analysis as comment.
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Post by akosjaccik on Sept 18, 2019 14:52:17 GMT -6
Issue is that ships are scaled down, but capacity of airbases are not. AI decision process goes well with decreased funds but not decision process for construction of coastal fortresses and building of airpower.
I will add this to analysis as comment.
That sounds like something that's very well worth a testing or two indeed.
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Post by dizzy on Sept 18, 2019 15:39:28 GMT -6
dorn because you detailed the economics of it so well in your chart, I'm sure they will be fixing it for the next patch. I mean, agree, the mechanics of this ruins the late game?
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Post by thesovietonion on Sept 18, 2019 18:37:47 GMT -6
I've seen the same. Wouldn't say it ruins the game but it is somewhat odd. May I suggest bringing these issues up in a nicer way? Honey over vinegar and all that.
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Post by tortugapower on Sept 18, 2019 18:49:37 GMT -6
Funny thing is, I was ringing the bell for esentially this same exact issue back in ~1.02. I'm rather glad that it came up again, dorn dipped into it and may get something out of it. My original recommendation was to drastically downscale land-based air capacity per base tier. We'll see if the team will cook up something. I think we've all felt something was off, but it's also a huge investment to get to the 1940s where this truly rears its ugly head. So it's one of those things that was always destined to be slow to fix.
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Post by 13th Fleet on Sept 19, 2019 5:23:01 GMT -6
Huh. I'm only on my third game, but I've noticed that in my current game (Germany) it's around 1960 and the AI is building/maintaining good sized fleets of Battlecruisers (aside from the US who are instead building good sized fleets of BBs).
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Post by nordlys on Sept 19, 2019 7:33:55 GMT -6
Huh. I'm only on my third game, but I've noticed that in my current game (Germany) it's around 1960 and the AI is building/maintaining good sized fleets of Battlecruisers (aside from the US who are instead building good sized fleets of BBs). Germany around 1960, and it's the opposite. Nobody builds BBs anymore, and the BCs are few and tend to be glorified CAs, with guns as small as 12". Kinda unwise when a superpower around the corner keeps a stable of much better-armored, 16x16" colossi. Sure, that might be exactly what happened IRL, but IRL entire fleets of carriers aren't routinely trapped against the shoreline at night and blasted to smithereens at point blank range by gleeful battleships. You can almost hear these pesky pilots cry "but we are supposed to rule the waves now!!1" as they are swept off the flight decks by the dozens...
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Post by dougphresh on Sept 19, 2019 8:01:19 GMT -6
I'm hoping the addition of missiles give new life to BCs.
What would a 1955 Kirov class look like?
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Post by jishmael on Sept 19, 2019 9:09:08 GMT -6
If the budget issues based on land air are the core issue, then why does the ai go CA crazy instead of building fewer bcs or bbs? I've seen nations with 40cas churning out more in the 50s. That shouldn't be a budget issue?
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Post by dorn on Sept 19, 2019 10:17:04 GMT -6
He is certainly not passing it off as normal(in fact claiming it’s a much larger issue) but pointing out that the reason behind current AI logic that lead to the result you observe. I'd like to see the logic the AI uses, cuz I think it's flawed. Getting rid of every BB you have because of air power? Flawed. Reducing your budget so you scrap completely fine new designs of BB's, flawed. I do not know logic. You can see effect and you can think what cause it, that's it. In RTW effect was good so there was no reason going to detail. But in RTW2 effects are bad. 2 main things changed in RTW2 - airpower and invasions. But some of effects is even outside these 2 changes (too heavy fleet).
My estimation is that 2 systems were implemented and core system slightly adjusted. But it does not work well. I think that RTW2 would never have so good balance as RTW1 as RTW1 was designed from scratch, RTW2 on top of RTW1 which is much more difficult to balance as the core systems from RTW1 was not at this time designed with airpower in mind. On top of that RTW2 is much more complicated system. But what is important to have system with reasonable balance as close as possible to quality of RTW1.
As players we can help that with analysis what is not working right. Telling only something is wrong does not help so much as it could be not easily visible and examples are much better to see.
As all of us wish to have best RTW2 possible. So far RTW1 seems better balanced. I hope at the end of evolution of RTW2, RTW2 will be very close with better and richer system (armour system, airpower, invasions etc.)
To compare RTW1 and RTW2, I hope we will get something similar to Master of Orion 1 and Master of Orion 2. Both games (MOO) are excellent, MoO2 is richer, more fun, but MoO even older is much better done. Compare MoO2 to MoO1 it has much more +++ but it has some - (specially micromanagement and some balancing).
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