|
Post by brygun on Oct 19, 2019 15:26:12 GMT -6
In the current system the weather for when you can't do air operations stops you from accessing the air group management.
In one unusual but possible situation I had a lot of planes readied to go on attacks but night came before I committed them to a launch. This being due to uncertainity on the enemy position and hoping scouts and recon planes might find them. Also the weather was on and off for air operations.
Thus when night came I dangerously had many planes on each of the carriers on deck. It would be the whole night of many hours before they could be launched. To avoid the risk I wanted to strike them below.
However the sea state preventing air operations made it not possible to "render safe" those many torpedo laden planes as I couldn't access the menu.
Not sure how to account for this other than to suggest adding a button on the ship squadron page to "strike below" planes of a selected carrier.
|
|
|
Post by jwsmith26 on Oct 24, 2019 10:52:11 GMT -6
It seems to me that a better way to handle this would be to continue to allow all deck and hangar operations, short of take offs, to continue regardless of weather. Bad weather should not prevent readying, spotting or striking below. An additional negative for the current system is the inability to even open the "Set up strike" screen in bad weather. This means you have no access to any aircraft statistics, which are only accessible during battles from the "Set up strike" screen.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 24, 2019 11:09:05 GMT -6
In the current system the weather for when you can't do air operations stops you from accessing the air group management. In one unusual but possible situation I had a lot of planes readied to go on attacks but night came before I committed them to a launch. This being due to uncertainity on the enemy position and hoping scouts and recon planes might find them. Also the weather was on and off for air operations. Thus when night came I dangerously had many planes on each of the carriers on deck. It would be the whole night of many hours before they could be launched. To avoid the risk I wanted to strike them below. However the sea state preventing air operations made it not possible to "render safe" those many torpedo laden planes as I couldn't access the menu. Not sure how to account for this other than to suggest adding a button on the ship squadron page to "strike below" planes of a selected carrier. I am not certain about what you are asking? If it becomes too late to launch, then you tie the planes down, close the canopies and you are done. If the planes are loaded, and the weather is bad enough to prevent launch, you do the same thing. You do not remove the ordnance, you just ensure that all ordnance is not armed but that is not accomplished until you are launched and climbing up. Most times you don't arm until the enemy ships are in sight. Keep in mind that the purpose of the deck park was to allow for more aircraft on the carrier. With 90 planes, you will not be able to get all down in the hangar.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 24, 2019 11:40:56 GMT -6
Here is an example.
Battle of Midway, June 4th.
The Big E launched 33 VSB(scout bombers), 14 VT and 10 VF. 8 fighters were launched for a second CAP after the strike left. One hour later 8 more were launched. In between, 8 fighters from the first CAP were landed. Typically this ship had 80-90 aircraft on board. So, 57 aircraft were launched from the deck park, and 16 fighters were launched after the strike left. This leaves about 73 launched. After the deck launch of the strike, the fighters brought up on deck and launched.
So, if she had 80 aircraft, 73 were launched, and eight were recovered between the second CAP launch and third CAP launch.
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Oct 24, 2019 11:57:25 GMT -6
I am not certain about what you are asking? If it becomes too late to launch, then you tie the planes down, close the canopies and you are done. If the planes are loaded, and the weather is bad enough to prevent launch, you do the same thing. You do not remove the ordnance, you just ensure that all ordnance is not armed but that is not accomplished until you are launched and climbing up. Most times you don't arm until the enemy ships are in sight. Keep in mind that the purpose of the deck park was to allow for more aircraft on the carrier. With 90 planes, you will not be able to get all down in the hangar. Yup! On a pitching sea, things with wheels roll around, crash, explode and catch fire. Gerald R. Ford, our past President was on board the carrier Monterey when it was nearly taken down in flames by its own airplanes as they crashed into bulkheads and exploded during violent rolls during a storm at sea. He reported rolls greater than 20° that caused aircraft below decks to careen into each other, igniting a fire. The carrier was barely saved. When planes and ordnance start moving around by themselves, that sorta things brings all carrier actions to an immediate halt.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 24, 2019 14:38:36 GMT -6
I am not certain about what you are asking? If it becomes too late to launch, then you tie the planes down, close the canopies and you are done. If the planes are loaded, and the weather is bad enough to prevent launch, you do the same thing. You do not remove the ordnance, you just ensure that all ordnance is not armed but that is not accomplished until you are launched and climbing up. Most times you don't arm until the enemy ships are in sight. Keep in mind that the purpose of the deck park was to allow for more aircraft on the carrier. With 90 planes, you will not be able to get all down in the hangar. Yup! On a pitching sea, things with wheels roll around, crash, explode and catch fire. Gerald R. Ford, our past President was on board the carrier Monterey when it was nearly taken down in flames by its own airplanes as they crashed into bulkheads and exploded during violent rolls during a storm at sea. He reported rolls greater than 20° that caused aircraft below decks to careen into each other, igniting a fire. The carrier was barely saved. When planes and ordnance start moving around by themselves, that sorta things brings all carrier actions to an immediate halt. Well, crews were supposed engage the parking brake which on the SBD was a knob on the left hand side of the instrument panel. So, tie downs and parking brakes with wheel chocks should keep the plane from moving around. I agree all of these safety procedures had to be observed all the time, no room for mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Oct 24, 2019 16:32:15 GMT -6
+1 to making the menu accessible though locking out activities specifically
Let me try to reiterate for those asking for clarification
In a day with on and off good/bad weather a strike of planes was readied with recon planes sent out. The strike of many planes was waiting for good intel on the enemy location. The weather turned bad and it stayed bad into the night time. Now there is a risk of encountering destroyers or even battleships at the extremely short range of non-radar visible spotting. Now would you leave those bombs and fueled planes on the carrier's deck as "ready"? Well... yes you would because you have to. The game's bad weather system blocks access to the menu to "strike below".
Needing to access that menu to "strike below" is the point.
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Oct 27, 2019 13:58:10 GMT -6
Now would you leave those bombs and fueled planes on the carrier's deck as "ready"? Well... yes you would because you have to. The game's bad weather system blocks access to the menu to "strike below". Needing to access that menu to "strike below" is the point. I'm not sure this isn't WAD. In rough sea states, it might be too dangerous to move aircraft to elevators, or to operate elevators with aircraft on them, so striking below might not actually be physically possible, and you might just have to tie them down on deck and hope for the best.
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Oct 27, 2019 17:34:16 GMT -6
Now would you leave those bombs and fueled planes on the carrier's deck as "ready"? Well... yes you would because you have to. The game's bad weather system blocks access to the menu to "strike below". Needing to access that menu to "strike below" is the point. I'm not sure this isn't WAD. In rough sea states, it might be too dangerous to move aircraft to elevators, or to operate elevators with aircraft on them, so striking below might not actually be physically possible, and you might just have to tie them down on deck and hope for the best. Well you wouldn't want bombs to stay armed into those conditions? you could pump the fuel out of the planes couldn't you?
|
|
|
Post by rimbecano on Oct 27, 2019 19:55:39 GMT -6
I'm not sure this isn't WAD. In rough sea states, it might be too dangerous to move aircraft to elevators, or to operate elevators with aircraft on them, so striking below might not actually be physically possible, and you might just have to tie them down on deck and hope for the best. Well you wouldn't want bombs to stay armed into those conditions? you could pump the fuel out of the planes couldn't you? You can try, but it takes time, and the crew is working in dangerous conditions. Look up "Typhoon Cobra" and the damage TF 38's carriers took due to planes that broke loose, including the case of Monterrey above. And frankly, I don't think (IRL at least), that you'd want to strike below. A loose plane on deck is more likely to go over the side and less likely to hit valuable equipment. Fires that start on deck are fairly likely to be extinguished by rain, men working on deck to strike planes below are much more likely to be washed overboard, and the manpower is likely to be needed to manage the chaos on the hangar deck (if there are any planes still below).
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Oct 28, 2019 9:03:07 GMT -6
Well they could add in risks of damage or loss when striking below when air ops are not possible. It could still be a valid tactical choice to risk those few containable losses compared to knowing their are enemy warships prowling nearby, eager to drop shells amongst all those bombs and fuel filled planes.
That is also assuming typhoon levels. Aside from storms you also have mist stopping air ops.
I believe the devs have said in this thread they are rethinking on the no air ops vs strike below. They typhoon examples could be treated as a risk of accident though still doable.
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Oct 28, 2019 9:29:41 GMT -6
I'm not sure this isn't WAD. In rough sea states, it might be too dangerous to move aircraft to elevators, or to operate elevators with aircraft on them, so striking below might not actually be physically possible, and you might just have to tie them down on deck and hope for the best. Well you wouldn't want bombs to stay armed into those conditions? you could pump the fuel out of the planes couldn't you? There are dangers on carriers moving ordnance or draining fuel tanks, so you would minimize those dangers as much as possible. Removing ordnance and sending it down the elevators to the ammunition storage room is possible but in bad weather it might just too dangerous. It really depends on the weather and how long it is going to last. The weather boys on board will be able to tell you, hopefully. You would leave the aircraft fueled and loaded. Weather reports and the data came from other ships and aircraft on patrols. All this was controlled by the Naval Aerology which was part of the Bureau of Aeronautics. The problem is that the task force might be on radio silence, hence only reports sent by others could be received including all pertinent data. From this, the aerologists on board would make the report to the captain and from that, carrier operations would be conducted.
|
|
|
Post by jwsmith26 on Oct 29, 2019 10:00:41 GMT -6
Carrier ops can be shut down in RTW2 by "light rain". That hardly sounds like a typhoon to me.
|
|
|
Post by Fredrik W on Oct 29, 2019 11:45:44 GMT -6
Right now there are several types of weather that shuts down air ops, but they all have the same effect. I will think about ways to make it more realistic. Light rain for example would prevent actual flying but not readying and spotting, while a hurricane should probably shut down everything. I will put it on the list for things that need some work.
Thanks for the input and feedback everyone!
|
|
|
Post by dizzy on Oct 29, 2019 12:28:46 GMT -6
Right now there are several types of weather that shuts down air ops, but they all have the same effect. I will think about ways to make it more realistic. Light rain for example would prevent actual flying but not readying and spotting, while a hurricane should probably shut down everything. I will put it on the list for things that need some work. Thanks for the input and feedback everyone! All weather aircraft were not really a thing until after ww2. So I was thinking maybe tech or later 1940's could see planes start operating in light rain? That'd be cool. It'd be cooler if it was tech related so only advanced tech could do that. What a game changer that'd be. Also, I know eventually that in RTW2 you can start launching and landing at night. Historically, the USS Enterprise CV(N)6, the N was for Night capability, launched and landed at night starting in 1944. But what I don't know is WHEN does this start in RTW2? It kinda sneaks up on you. Cannot we get an event notification that our nation has developed this ability? It always sneaks up on me and I just find myself operating carriers after dark when before the planes would simply either not launch or return to the carrier as darkness approached.
|
|