Submarine Spam

[captainsilver]

Allright so this isn't me complaining about the submarine spam in my game atm. I'm kinda meh about it. But I noticed one BIG thing about the spam and that is that every other nation neglects ALL of their ships, just to build submarines.

I'm at war with France atm and it's 1932. France has 0 BB's, A single BC (that has somehow continued to evade my fleets), no CV's, 1 CVL, 2 CA's, 2CL's, 10 DD's and a staggering 60 bloody submarines along with another 22 currently being built.

To make it clear, they aren't building any other ships besides submarines and I think that is kinda a big problem since I've managed to disassemble their entire empire. They have nothing in Asia or the Pacific anymore because they have done nothing but build subs since they were able to when they got invented.

EDIT: Actually, the spam is starting to really annoy me. Every turn I have at least 4 of my capital ships either being sunk or damaged and put into dry dock for months to perform extensive repairs. France isn't the only one doing it either. EVERY other nation is just building submarines en mass.

US (Me)
Active: 1
Building: 4
Germany:
Active: 96
Building: 39
UK:
Active: 85
Building: 48
France:
Active: 51 (I've sunk at least 100+ in the war I'm currently fighting with them)
Building: 43
Russia:
Active: 64
Building: 17
Japan:
Active: 69
Building: 5
Italy:
Active: 83
Building: 10

For reference, they have almost no surface ships. 

[dorn]

If you sunk almost whole fleet they cannot rebuilt it during war so they are focusing only to submarines which give them chance.

You need to react by building high number of ASW ships. Your fleet is almost useless as you have nothing to fight.

It happened in history in boths world wars to Germany. Their surface fleet was destroyer but was still useless focusing resources to submarines.

[dizzy]

What makes you think this is a bug? Just because France is building 4.3 million worth of subs in 1932 dollars means they are probably sacrificing one BB build to do so. Had they been building 80 subs, I'd be concerned. If the AI had any sense, this would be a viable strategy when their surface fleet is destroyed. I don't know the game is this smart. If it is, maybe they should build more.

Do you have low or high tech in ASW warfare? Do you have a lot of Trade Protection ships with high ASW capability? If not, then your enemy isn't fully taking advantage of your weakness and needs to build more subs. I'd call it a bug if they were spamming subs (which I dont think is the case) and your trade protection was overwhelming ASW capable. Why would the AI try to attack your strength? In this case, if, as you claim, you have dismantled their navy and they have a lone BC you can't catch, what better way to fight you in the short term than by building subs? Seems by your own admission they are doing a pretty good job of sinking your ships this way.

Not a bug imo.

[dizzy]

Oct 31, 2019 23:19:47 GMT -6 captainsilver said:

EVERY other nation is just building submarines en mass.

Also, many times you will see other nations respond to each other with escalation tactics concerning strategic assets. Submarines are one of those assets. Everything is an escalation in a sense. Thicker armor leads to bigger guns. Bigger guns lead to thicker armor. Anytime a nation builds something better than anyone else, other nations follow suit. 

[captainsilver]

Nov 1, 2019 1:08:39 GMT -6 dizzy said:

What makes you think this is a bug? Just because France is building 4.3 million worth of subs in 1932 dollars means they are probably sacrificing one BB build to do so. Had they been building 80 subs, I'd be concerned. If the AI had any sense, this would be a viable strategy when their surface fleet is destroyed. I don't know the game is this smart. If it is, maybe they should build more.

Do you have low or high tech in ASW warfare? Do you have a lot of Trade Protection ships with high ASW capability? If not, then your enemy isn't fully taking advantage of your weakness and needs to build more subs. I'd call it a bug if they were spamming subs (which I dont think is the case) and your trade protection was overwhelming ASW capable. Why would the AI try to attack your strength? In this case, if, as you claim, you have dismantled their navy and they have a lone BC you can't catch, what better way to fight you in the short term than by building subs? Seems by your own admission they are doing a pretty good job of sinking your ships this way.

Not a bug imo.

No. Thats the issue. They are building 80 submarines at once.

I'll try and get a screenshot to show you

[BathTubAdmiral]

I don't see "80 submarines at once", but 48, 43, 39, 17, 10 and 5. Or do you mean that France ramped up the number to 80?

Yet, 80 subs are only 8000/turn, and finish in 14 month (if they are SSC, you didn't specify) - the AI might build 3 BBs for that - but those finish in 30+ month ... .

I agree with dizzy here, the AI is doing the sensible thing to put hurt on you. If the surface fleet wasnt able to sink your capital ships and the subs can, why shouldn't it build as much of them as it can?
And don't forget - by sinking Frances capital ships, you freed a lot of money that was going into upkeep - and the fastest way to turn that into combat potential is subs ...