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Post by Adseria on Nov 7, 2019 11:13:46 GMT -6
Here are the pros and cons of the different types, as I understand it:
HAA:
Pros: Can defend other nearby ships. More effective than other AA.
Cons: Only includes DP primary and secondary armament, so amount is limited.
MAA:
Pros: Cheaper and lighter than HAA. Only limited by topside space. Does more damage than LAA.
Cons: Heavier than LAA. Does less damage than HAA. Self-defence only; can't be used to support other ships.
LAA:
Pros: Lightest, and cheapest, form of AA.
Cons: Least effective form of AA (by damage). May sometimes not fire until after the aircraft drop their ordnance. Does not gain the benefits of any AA directors.
The way I normally set up my AA is as follows:
1: Add as many DP (HAA) guns as possible without limiting firepower vs surface targets. 2: Add as many AA Directors as will fit. 3: Add as much MAA as possible; leave at least 2 topside space and enough weight for at least one LAA. 4: Fill any remaining topside space/weight with LAA.
The reason I leave space for one or two LAA is because I feel that it's worth giving up some firepower in the MAA phase in return for the roll of the dice in the LAA phase. However, I never have more than 3, because, at that point, I may as well have 2 MAA and 1 LAA; the MAA will be more effective, so I avoid having more LAA than absolutely necessary.
I think the only reason the AI uses LAA is because it tries to maintain historical accuracy.
Incidentally, the 4-part sequence I described above often happens concurrently with the rest of the design process, particularly when I design a ship specifically for AA escort duties. I don't, for instance, design armament, armour, aircraft capabilities, and so on, and only then worry about AA; I do that, and then go back and look over the design, see if there are any changes I want to make, make them, and repeat that process until I'm satisfied with the result.
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Post by secondcomingofzeno on Nov 7, 2019 17:51:26 GMT -6
To put HAA on your ships you need a moderate way up the AA research tech tree. You then have to mount the appropriate 3”, 4”, 5” or 6” gun with the DP selected. Tip: only single and dual gun mounts can be DP.
This is a slightly annoying aspect, it makes remaking the Town and Crown colony classes with their triple 6'' DP guns even more difficult, on top of replicating the ships within weight limits being already difficult. Although the feature was later dropped due to the rate of fire of the guns being out stripped by the increased speed of aircraft.
IJN triple 6 inch guns were also DP...In theory.
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Post by dizzy on Nov 7, 2019 18:28:53 GMT -6
This is a slightly annoying aspect, it makes remaking the Town and Crown colony classes with their triple 6'' DP guns even more difficult, on top of replicating the ships within weight limits being already difficult. Although the feature was later dropped due to the rate of fire of the guns being out stripped by the increased speed of aircraft.
IJN triple 6 inch guns were also DP...In theory. So were their 18" guns.
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swang
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by swang on Nov 7, 2019 18:34:57 GMT -6
Wait, I thought LAA fires after the weapon drop. How could it disrupt accuracy?
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Post by wlbjork on Nov 7, 2019 21:51:43 GMT -6
I'm guessing that is to simulate the effect of tracer. If a pilot sees a wall of tracer, they're going to try and avoid it, regardless of being in range or not.
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Post by dizzy on Nov 7, 2019 22:23:55 GMT -6
HAA and MAA are focused on stopping enemy planes from dropping on a ship. They can do this at considerable range, beyond that of LAA. Once the enemy plane has dropped, it’s not a priority for HAA and MAA and they re-acquire any other threat. Meanwhile, the enemy plane that dropped is rather close to the ship and so the LAA attempts to shoot it down. Something like that.
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Post by secondcomingofzeno on Nov 7, 2019 23:28:10 GMT -6
IJN triple 6 inch guns were also DP...In theory. So were their 18" guns. Mmmm, I feel as though "DP" doesn't quite describe them. 155mm triples were made with high elevations and stuff inherent with the design, they wanted to use them to boost AA. The 18.1 inchers were more "Well we have the guns...I guess we can fire them at planes, lets make a shell"
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Post by dizzy on Nov 8, 2019 0:03:42 GMT -6
My Yamato's main 18 inch guns are DP.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Nov 8, 2019 4:31:38 GMT -6
Wait, I thought LAA fires after the weapon drop. How could it disrupt accuracy? from the manual:
Light AA will fire at aircraft attacking their own ship either before or after enemy aircraft release their ordnance, depending on a random roll compared to the speed of the aircraft. The faster the aircraft is, the larger the chance that light AA will fire after the aircraft has dropped its ordnance. LAA will always inflict disruption before aircraft attack, even if their fire takes effect after the aircraft have attacked.
this leads me to believe that early on when aircraft are slower, LAA should generally engage aircraft before they drop ordinance
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Post by brygun on Nov 8, 2019 10:18:23 GMT -6
Wait, I thought LAA fires after the weapon drop. How could it disrupt accuracy? from the manual:
Light AA will fire at aircraft attacking their own ship either before or after enemy aircraft release their ordnance, depending on a random roll compared to the speed of the aircraft. The faster the aircraft is, the larger the chance that light AA will fire after the aircraft has dropped its ordnance. LAA will always inflict disruption before aircraft attack, even if their fire takes effect after the aircraft have attacked.
this leads me to believe that early on when aircraft are slower, LAA should generally engage aircraft before they drop ordinance
I appear to be corrected, partially, on my earlier description. In the battle log the LAA status message seems to come up after the bomb release but that could just be the message placement. The LAA affect of disruption could have been applied. We dont see "disruption" messages. >>> Based on discussions Ive modified my LAA/MAA mix to roughly 2 LAA to 1 MAA. This being after of course figuring out bulky HAA vs whether the ship is meant to be in groups, alone or using DP guns for anti-DD.
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Post by stevethecat on Nov 8, 2019 11:28:18 GMT -6
IJN triple 6 inch guns were also DP...In theory. So were their 18" guns.
The Venerable RN 15'' mk1 also had a AA shrapnel shell, the hope that even though aircraft might be hard to hit a few of the 13,700 lead balls loaded into each shell would find a way to hit something. In theory.
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Post by orkel on Nov 8, 2019 12:31:25 GMT -6
My Yamato's main 18 inch guns are DP. Do you ever see this issue during air attacks? Seems to start happening to me around the time heavy AA shells get researched.
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Post by chaosblade on Nov 8, 2019 14:43:07 GMT -6
The Venerable RN 15'' mk1 also had a AA shrapnel shell, the hope that even though aircraft might be hard to hit a few of the 13,700 lead balls loaded into each shell would find a way to hit something. In theory.
Or maybe they just wanted a 15" Punt gun, for the really aggressive geese
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Post by brygun on Nov 8, 2019 15:11:55 GMT -6
Or maybe they just wanted a 15" Punt gun, for the really aggressive geese
Its part of improving naval logistics to allow the ship's to feed their crews with flocks of passing migratory birds.
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Post by dizzy on Nov 8, 2019 21:17:41 GMT -6
My Yamato's main 18 inch guns are DP. Do you ever see this issue during air attacks? Seems to start happening to me around the time heavy AA shells get researched.
I'll keep an eye out.
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