|
|
Post by brygun on Dec 16, 2019 10:40:13 GMT -6
Playing as Russia. Its 1907. We are in our second war with Germany. The first war was a draw. A desperate draw with their blockade almost causing a revolution as we released the world's first unrestricted submarine warfare with coastal subs launched in that war.
With good spies and research it comes that we can now access 14 inch guns (short barrel quality -1), large wing turrets, torpedo protection (1) and steam turbines when our dock size expansions reach 25,000 tons. Just then cross deck firing becomes possible!
Eager presenters explain to the Tsar, still in power, the plans for the Chekov "dreadnought". It will mount five turrets each with a pair of 14 inch guns and put all ten barrels into the narrow broadside.
Ah but we dont quite have the armor desired and limited secondaries on that tonnage. In fact the design comes down to cutting down the shells per 14" barrel from the standard one hundred to ninety-five.
It does work with the funds be tossed in develop the design for production.
Two months to the designing the yards report expansions now allow building to 27,000 tons.
Hmmm....
That does fix the ammo problem, a slight increase in the broadside armor from 9 to 10 inch, something that worried us.
Right... commit the funds to develop this design.
A few months in a great sea battle takes place. We lose 7 pre-dreads to their 9. A marginal win and Not a situation that will end the blockade.
We look to the hopes of starting the lengthy build for the Chekov "type B"
That's when X turret super imposed is stolen from the British.
Well...
Lets through the budget for design in... again for the third time. The Chekov Type C.
Another four months of designing before building.
Oh... and now Oil firing got developed.
Chekov Type D here we come
Ah... I love this game its research unlocks.
|
|
|
|
Post by kriegsmeister on Dec 16, 2019 11:24:16 GMT -6
Situations like this is when I really wish we could refit/redesign ships under construction. Yes, historically there was always that struggle during the dreadnought race of laying down ships that would be outdated and outclassed by the time they launched, but it hits a bit too hard in game having to decide whether to waste a lot of money and scrap a new class of ships a year into construction in favor of pushing the money into a better design or just building the ships as is and have them be inferior to the competition. Being able to refit under construction would help like upgrading guns and/or rearranging turrets (crossdeck/super firing), but limitations should be inplace like not being able to add 10k tons to the design. A good moderator might be just use the "modified from previous design" system of discounts on ships built to a slight modification of already built ships with verying levels of discount or outright saying this is a new class, but rather than getting discounts you get a slight higher construction cost and time (10% change = ~1-2 mo, ~5-10% $ increase; 40% change = ~8-12mo, ~30-50% $)
|
|
|
|
Post by axe99 on Dec 16, 2019 15:01:57 GMT -6
Aye, I'm a huge fan of the way research works, it forces plenty of hard decisions where there's no "right answer" (but a few wrong ones!) It goes well  |
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Dec 16, 2019 16:04:34 GMT -6
Well it is part of the game of when to commit to production. My view is partly just noting the situation.
I do wish we could redesign from design blueprints. For instance with the situation above Chekov B, C, D could have been % cost designs from the existing design.
As kreigmaster says ships under construction in real life did get mid build tweaks. Small things. Certainly changing from quality -1, 0 to +1 guns if they came up. Fire control and secondary changes were also plausible. So long as it was a low % cost like in a refit they could do it during building.
|
|
|
|
Post by wlbjork on Dec 17, 2019 1:00:41 GMT -6
I'd like each component to be tracked in a "red-amber-green" system.
Red: Component installed, major cost and time delay to replace.
Amber: Component ordered and under construction, smaller cost and time delay to replace
Green: Component not yet ordered, no time delay just increased cost of component.
Of course, this would mean major work, probably too much for this version of the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by dorn on Dec 17, 2019 1:42:26 GMT -6
This is the best thing on this game and the reason I like the first 20 years most. After that situation changed around 1920, treaty limitation took effects and game is taken around historical situation even if such treaty is not in game.
This is the reason why AI struggle later as AI builds real CVs, player builds large powerful ones. It is similar with cruisers and battleships.
In the first 20 years ship will usually become second rated just after several years.
|
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Dec 17, 2019 7:43:56 GMT -6
In the first 20 years ship will usually become second rated just after several years. Agreed. Its this sort of thing that really impresses the choices of real world navies and other long term capital projects like railroads or other major infrastructure. |
|
|
|
Post by janxol on Dec 18, 2019 5:45:32 GMT -6
Well it is part of the game of when to commit to production. My view is partly just noting the situation. I do wish we could redesign from design blueprints. For instance with the situation above Chekov B, C, D could have been % cost designs from the existing design. As kreigmaster says ships under construction in real life did get mid build tweaks. Small things. Certainly changing from quality -1, 0 to +1 guns if they came up. Fire control and secondary changes were also plausible. So long as it was a low % cost like in a refit they could do it during building. You can redesign from blueprints as long as you completed the design study. Start building a ship, click on a ship in construction-> open design
Create a new design as if doing it on an existing ship, save new design, start developing new design, cancel the ship in construction.
Normal limitations regarding % apply, like developing from existing class.
|
|
|
|
Post by dorn on Dec 18, 2019 6:00:35 GMT -6
Well it is part of the game of when to commit to production. My view is partly just noting the situation. I do wish we could redesign from design blueprints. For instance with the situation above Chekov B, C, D could have been % cost designs from the existing design. As kreigmaster says ships under construction in real life did get mid build tweaks. Small things. Certainly changing from quality -1, 0 to +1 guns if they came up. Fire control and secondary changes were also plausible. So long as it was a low % cost like in a refit they could do it during building. You can redesign from blueprints as long as you completed the design study. Start building a ship, click on a ship in construction-> open design
Create a new design as if doing it on an existing ship, save new design, start developing new design, cancel the ship in construction.
Normal limitations regarding % apply, like developing from existing class.
When design for construction you are always asked if you want to modify design. I almost always do it to check if new possibilities are worth the change as it treated this new design as change to original with lower costs if changes are limited. If you do not want to change the design, you can always close the design window and you can build ship to original design. |
|
|
|
Post by wlbjork on Dec 18, 2019 14:31:44 GMT -6
You can redesign from blueprints as long as you completed the design study. Start building a ship, click on a ship in construction-> open design
Create a new design as if doing it on an existing ship, save new design, start developing new design, cancel the ship in construction.
Normal limitations regarding % apply, like developing from existing class.
When design for construction you are always asked if you want to modify design. I almost always do it to check if new possibilities are worth the change as it treated this new design as change to original with lower costs if changes are limited. If you do not want to change the design, you can always close the design window and you can build ship to original design. You can...but occasionally I find that the new turn summary will glitch and appear, blocking the window. Every time I click the close button, completely forgetting that clicking anywhere off the design window also closes the design window  |
|
|
|
Post by rs2excelsior on Dec 19, 2019 7:08:37 GMT -6
Even if that does happen, you should still be able to get the discount for editing a design. Go to the design ship window, click open, and bring up the original design. You should be able to edit and get the design phase discount as long as the 10% or 20% change message appears.
|
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Dec 19, 2019 9:31:28 GMT -6
hmm.... guess I should have waited for the few turns of design time to complete before reforging
|
|
