enric
New Member
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Post by enric on Dec 14, 2020 15:12:59 GMT -6
So when you win a war there are two options, 1. Take colonies or 2. Take war reps (done by taking no colonies) I don't know if its technically taking war reps because the game only says "this will lead to a small boost in your economy." but that's the vibe I get. So I was wondering if there could be more options, like limiting the defeated nations' amount of ships they could have, or even taking their ships for your own use, like what France and Italy wanted to do to the Germany's navy after the first World War. Or if there was an option to limit a defeated nation's fleet tonnage to a percent of your own fleet tonnage like with the London naval treaty.
I Find it boring just taking colony after colony away, it's just a thought.
Edit: So I was thinking more about it, and It would be cool if you could also dismantle empires. So instead of taking colonies you could release that colony and become a protectorate of that free country, thereby making it impossible to conquer it again unless someone beats you in war. So instead of building an empire you could build a free world if you wanted to.
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Post by wlbjork on Dec 15, 2020 0:40:30 GMT -6
Generally, its better to take the repatriations as these will grant you a bigger boost to the economy than a colony will.
There are occasions when you can also take ships away from your opponent, although that usually requires the enemy to suffer a heavy morale defeat and have a government collapse due to stability issues.
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Post by dia on Dec 15, 2020 8:57:40 GMT -6
You can take ships but it's rare. I've heard of people that took multiple ships, but I've never ever experienced this. But yes I would love to see some other options like treaties/restrictions or geopolitical changes. But the former is implemented on a very basic level and the geopolitics practically doesn't exist in game outside of alliances and tension levels. But it does get very boring decimating and collapsing the Austrian-Hungarian Empire multiple times in a row and they come like nothing ever happened.
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Post by nimrod on Dec 24, 2020 12:11:42 GMT -6
I've had some thoughts on the dismantlement of Empires.
I came down that I would like the option to have permanent to semi-permanent (10-20) treaties enforced on countries that are utterly smashed such as having less than 20-30% of tonnage as the player. The treaties along with a 10-20 year reduction of the naval budget of the defeated nation (like the treaty of Versailles and this would have a higher chance of triggering for democracies) and or a percentage of their budget being re-directed towards the conquering nation (higher chance for totalitarian governments) - maybe 15-20% of colony resources and 35-45% of the home-territory resources. Both options hinder the creation of a power navy and would provide additional benefits to the conquering nation - military basing or resources. Historically they would would mimic such situations as Japan being an occupied nation and used for military operations by the USA in the Korean war or the German occupation of France / creation of Vichy France - respectfully.
Smashed nations would ideally see a higher likelihood of rebellions in the colonies and higher unrest when at war - making them prone to revolutions to illustrate the throwing off the invaders / treaties / weak government which surrendered. Once a revolution occurs the domestic / economic / etc. stats would revert to the standard for the new government type.
Taking tech would also be appreciated - especially if you end up being treated with the conquered country or seize ships with new tech... I mean If I seize a ship with visible tech advancements like: radar, missiles, forward ASW mortar, dp secondaries, new caliber gun, diesels, catapults, etc. I think the tech should be available shortly after the seizure.
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Post by williammiller on Jan 2, 2021 10:19:11 GMT -6
Interesting suggestions, thanks!
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Post by rimbecano on Jan 2, 2021 18:45:48 GMT -6
As mentioned, taking ships is an option, but fairly rare, and I've never taken more than one. I'd love to see this made a bit more aggressive, as after WWI the British basically took possession of the entire German navy (although many of the ships were then sabotaged by their crews, that happened after they had been delivered to Scapa Flow).
Ooh, that would make for an interesting game event "German crews have sabotaged the ships that we took as reparations, the following ships have been sunk:"
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Post by buttons on Jan 2, 2021 19:24:14 GMT -6
So when you win a war there are two options, 1. Take colonies or 2. Take war reps (done by taking no colonies) I don't know if its technically taking war reps because the game only says "this will lead to a small boost in your economy." but that's the vibe I get.
So I was wondering if there could be more options, like limiting the defeated nations' amount of ships they could have, or even taking there ships for your own use, like what France and Italy wanted to do to the Germany's navy after the first World War. Or if there was an option to limit a defeated nation's fleet tonnage to a percent of your own fleet tonnage like with the London naval treaty. I Find it boring just taking colony after colony away, it's just a thought.
Edit:
So I was thinking more about it, and It would be cool if you could also dismantle empires. So instead of taking colonies you could release that colony and become a protectorate of that free country, thereby making it impossible to conquer it again unless someone beats you in war. So instead of building an empire you could build a free world if you wanted to. I've said before that I would like an actual peace menu after a war. As an example lets say you fight a war against Germany and their government collapses and sues for peace. You get 20 points to spend on peace requests which are divided into colonies, reparations, trophy ships, and arms limitations treaties. So you might spend 10 points getting colonies, 5 points claiming three capital ships and four cruisers, 3 points on a naval treaty limiting maximum tonnage, and just take the remaining 2 points as reparations. Going into greater depth in spitballing the concept for claiming ships you might be able to claim capital ships for 1 war score and a cruiser for a half a war score (so two for one point) and treaties could be broken into categories that have their specifics randomly generated eg. - Tonnage Limitation: 3 Points (limits tonnage to like 65-85% that of biggest capital ship in service when the treaty is signed)
- Significant Tonnage Limitation: 8 Points (limits tonnage to like 40-60% that of the biggest capital ship in service when the treaty is signed)
- Gun Calibre Limitation: 2 Points (limits gun calibre to 12-15")
- Significant Gun Calibre Limitation: 5 Points (limits gun calibre to 10-11")
- Submarine Limitation: 8 Points (can't build subs)
- Naval Aviation Limitation: 5 Points (can't build any ships new that carry aircraft)
- Aviation Limitation: 12 Points (can't build any planes)
This would in general give war goals more versatility and make defeating nations feel more significant, if you defeat a major naval power by enforcing arms limitations on them you can actually prevent them from rebuilding their navy and fielding a fleet from scratch in five years.
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enric
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by enric on Mar 21, 2021 0:32:43 GMT -6
I've had some thoughts on the dismantlement of Empires. I came down that I would like the option to have permanent to semi-permanent (10-20) treaties enforced on countries that are utterly smashed such as having less than 20-30% of tonnage as the player. The treaties along with a 10-20 year reduction of the naval budget of the defeated nation (like the treaty of Versailles and this would have a higher chance of triggering for democracies) and or a percentage of their budget being re-directed towards the conquering nation (higher chance for totalitarian governments) - maybe 15-20% of colony resources and 35-45% of the home-territory resources. Both options hinder the creation of a power navy and would provide additional benefits to the conquering nation - military basing or resources. Historically they would would mimic such situations as Japan being an occupied nation and used for military operations by the USA in the Korean war or the German occupation of France / creation of Vichy France - respectfully. Smashed nations would ideally see a higher likelihood of rebellions in the colonies and higher unrest when at war - making them prone to revolutions to illustrate the throwing off the invaders / treaties / weak government which surrendered. Once a revolution occurs the domestic / economic / etc. stats would revert to the standard for the new government type. Taking tech would also be appreciated - especially if you end up being treated with the conquered country or seize ships with new tech... I mean If I seize a ship with visible tech advancements like: radar, missiles, forward ASW mortar, dp secondaries, new caliber gun, diesels, catapults, etc. I think the tech should be available shortly after the seizure. Ohh man, I didn't even think about taking tech, That would be awesome. I've fought the americans at the dawn of aircraft, so around 1922, and It would be so cool if I could make them give me aircraft inventions.
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enric
New Member
Posts: 4
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Post by enric on Mar 21, 2021 0:34:27 GMT -6
So when you win a war there are two options, 1. Take colonies or 2. Take war reps (done by taking no colonies) I don't know if its technically taking war reps because the game only says "this will lead to a small boost in your economy." but that's the vibe I get.
So I was wondering if there could be more options, like limiting the defeated nations' amount of ships they could have, or even taking there ships for your own use, like what France and Italy wanted to do to the Germany's navy after the first World War. Or if there was an option to limit a defeated nation's fleet tonnage to a percent of your own fleet tonnage like with the London naval treaty. I Find it boring just taking colony after colony away, it's just a thought.
Edit:
So I was thinking more about it, and It would be cool if you could also dismantle empires. So instead of taking colonies you could release that colony and become a protectorate of that free country, thereby making it impossible to conquer it again unless someone beats you in war. So instead of building an empire you could build a free world if you wanted to. I've said before that I would like an actual peace menu after a war. As an example lets say you fight a war against Germany and their government collapses and sues for peace. You get 20 points to spend on peace requests which are divided into colonies, reparations, trophy ships, and arms limitations treaties. So you might spend 10 points getting colonies, 5 points claiming three capital ships and four cruisers, 3 points on a naval treaty limiting maximum tonnage, and just take the remaining 2 points as reparations. Going into greater depth in spitballing the concept for claiming ships you might be able to claim capital ships for 1 war score and a cruiser for a half a war score (so two for one point) and treaties could be broken into categories that have their specifics randomly generated eg. - Tonnage Limitation: 3 Points (limits tonnage to like 65-85% that of biggest capital ship in service when the treaty is signed)
- Significant Tonnage Limitation: 8 Points (limits tonnage to like 40-60% that of the biggest capital ship in service when the treaty is signed)
- Gun Calibre Limitation: 2 Points (limits gun calibre to 12-15")
- Significant Gun Calibre Limitation: 5 Points (limits gun calibre to 10-11")
- Submarine Limitation: 8 Points (can't build subs)
- Naval Aviation Limitation: 5 Points (can't build any ships new that carry aircraft)
- Aviation Limitation: 12 Points (can't build any planes)
This would in general give war goals more versatility and make defeating nations feel more significant, if you defeat a major naval power by enforcing arms limitations on them you can actually prevent them from rebuilding their navy and fielding a fleet from scratch in five years.
Reading this makes me excited, I would love to see a peace menu with all those functions.
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Post by christian on Mar 23, 2021 7:39:50 GMT -6
As of currently colonies are borderline useless the small boost to the economy is usually offset by the extra need of ships to staff them unless you have 5+ in one region
Another thing is while the war reperations thing does not give that big of a boost to the economy its far better than colonies
and yes it makes absolutely 0 sense for "colonies" such as Sweden and Russia to essentially be worthless
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Post by mobeer on Mar 23, 2021 9:32:49 GMT -6
I wish we could see more details of the ships available to seize as reparations. I have managed to take ships with details like "long range" + "cramped accomodation", which then cannot be refit as this is an illegal combination in the ship designer.
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Post by captaintrek on Mar 30, 2021 18:29:40 GMT -6
You can take ships but it's rare. I've heard of people that took multiple ships, but I've never ever experienced this. I don't think it's possible to take multiple ships in the same peace deal, but in my current campaign as Germany I have taken a ship on three separate occasions, having collapsed the governments of Italy, France, and then the USA. It's also worth noting that the US is unable change government type after collapsing (they remain a Liberal Democracy no matter what), which could also stand to be changed. Speaking of the US, does anyone else think their rapid economic development shouldn't start to kick in until after they've been significantly involved in at least one war ('significantly' meaning having either taken or lost territory, or lost at least one armoured cruiser or larger), to better represent whole the "sleeping giant" thing, rather than having the US be guaranteed to run away with the game every time even if they remain completely peaceful and isolationist?
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Post by navalperson on Mar 30, 2021 19:28:04 GMT -6
You can take ships but it's rare. I've heard of people that took multiple ships, but I've never ever experienced this. I don't think it's possible to take multiple ships in the same peace deal, but in my current campaign as Germany I have taken a ship on three separate occasions, having collapsed the governments of Italy, France, and then the USA. It's also worth noting that the US is unable change government type after collapsing (they remain a Liberal Democracy no matter what), which could also stand to be changed. Speaking of the US, does anyone else think their rapid economic development shouldn't start to kick in until after they've been significantly involved in at least one war ('significantly' meaning having either taken or lost territory, or lost at least one armoured cruiser or larger), to better represent whole the "sleeping giant" thing, rather than having the US be guaranteed to run away with the game every time even if they remain completely peaceful and isolationist? It would be nice to be able to take more than 1 ship as in some real wars they didn’t just take one ship and if you lose a war in a game another country can take multiple ships so I think that should be added if not already or increase the chance of it happening in a one country war.
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Post by dorn on Mar 31, 2021 0:53:14 GMT -6
I don't think it's possible to take multiple ships in the same peace deal, but in my current campaign as Germany I have taken a ship on three separate occasions, having collapsed the governments of Italy, France, and then the USA. It's also worth noting that the US is unable change government type after collapsing (they remain a Liberal Democracy no matter what), which could also stand to be changed. Speaking of the US, does anyone else think their rapid economic development shouldn't start to kick in until after they've been significantly involved in at least one war ('significantly' meaning having either taken or lost territory, or lost at least one armoured cruiser or larger), to better represent whole the "sleeping giant" thing, rather than having the US be guaranteed to run away with the game every time even if they remain completely peaceful and isolationist? It would be nice to be able to take more than 1 ship as in some real wars they didn’t just take one ship and if you lose a war in a game another country can take multiple ships so I think that should be added if not already or increase the chance of it happening in a one country war. There is only one ship player can take after war. It is related to the fact that practically no war prizes were used extensively.
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Post by captaintrek on Apr 2, 2021 18:08:29 GMT -6
It would be nice to be able to take more than 1 ship as in some real wars they didn’t just take one ship and if you lose a war in a game another country can take multiple ships so I think that should be added if not already or increase the chance of it happening in a one country war. There is only one ship player can take after war. It is related to the fact that practically no war prizes were used extensively. Well if that's the reason, perhaps we could be allowed, in addition to taking one ship into our service as things currently work, to force the defeated nation to additionally scrap one or more ships, representing additional ships that have been taken, but are immediately relegated to use as training ships, sunk as gunnery targets, or broken up as part of an investigation into the rival nation's technology and naval construction techniques?
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