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Post by William Miller on Feb 6, 2016 19:05:17 GMT -6
My notes about AV/security apps was a general "to all" of the thread. Obviously updating the drivers is the first option. IGOUGO actually isn't as important as the 3D/2D coding or DX calls of a gaming engine. WCNAW is written on a very standardized coding engine with built in 3D/2D DX compatibility so it should run fine on most any market standard PC .. problem is proprietary name brand PCs (Example, HP) use a lot of outdated, modified, or reduced feature driver sets and sometimes proprietary low grade components, which can cause all sorts of weird anomalies with gaming apps - regardless of how new the PC is. Of course sales people looking for a commission won't know, or don't care, to tell customers that. Seen this type of thing more times then I care to count and of course its always the fault of anyone but those that built the PC, who are also the ones looking for a healthy profit and giving kickbacks to the sales people, in the first place. Heck, half the work I did as a PC tech was to optimize operating systems and driver sets and watch for any interfering PC apps that were jammed into name brand PCs - which were a big problem a lot of times. In the end many of my customers had me wipe the system and reload the OS and each driver and app one by one to make sure they knew, and I knew, what was on the PC .. no bloatware garbage. The difference that often made was staggering. I even look at PCs on the shelf sometimes and notice how poorly they run.. seem crap goes on. Much like a car.. put bad gas, oil, or junk parts in it and it will run like crap. Sure you saw that a lot as an aircraft tech Dennis..
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gaggle44
New Member
retired Foreign Service Officer
Posts: 9
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Post by gaggle44 on Feb 6, 2016 19:06:07 GMT -6
Let me thank you all again for the numerous suggestions and all the advice you've provided today. I've taken this about as far as I can, following that advice, and am still stuck. Everything is awesome!
With regard to the need to update drivers, I followed Chris's advice and installed Driver Booster, which I then used to finish updating all the relevant drivers I and that program could find. Discovered that AMD had declared my graphics card, a Radeon HD 7450, to be a "legacy" product. However, they made a more recent, WHQL-certified driver available for those of us who'd fallen so far behind the curve - the AMD Catalyst 15.7.1 driver. Driver Booster told me the driver for my ViewSonic LCD monitor was up to date - no new ones available in any event and the ViewSonic support website seems about as sucky as they come. But I did use Driver Booster to update the drivers for my IDT HD Audio Codec (that was a treat -IDT had sold that part of their business to a second firm that also did not seem to really embrace the concept of accessible customer support), my AMD audio controller, my AMD IOMMU, and a Realtek PCI GBE family controller. Everything else on board seemed to be up to date.
But none of that has broken the back of my problem. After all that updating, I've tried again to run WC-NAW under all three of the screen modes and the compatibility settings for Windows 7, W 8, W XP (SP 3), and W 10. Same frustration - a brief blip as a small window comes and goes almost too quickly to spot. I've tried to run it with my Internet connection in place and disconnected, and with my AV program on and off (that's Avast - works fine for me and has for three years since a local PC technician recommended it after Symantec's program left my previous computer completely infested with viruses).
That just about exhausts the ideas you all have put forward today and my willingness to wrestle with this much longer. I should point out again that I do have WC-SAI and SAIC running normally on this same machine. Those programs seemed not to be affected in the same way by the move to Windows 10. Seems a pity.
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Post by William Miller on Feb 6, 2016 19:11:14 GMT -6
Ok..drop me an email at nws-online@nws-online.net with a number and time I can reach you at and I will try to help you by phone.. most likely it is something very simple that is just being missed.
Side note, SAI uses only a very low complexity 2D engine that is far less sophisticated then the engine WCNAW uses.. and ironically much older, but very stable. Since the SAI coding engine is only using 2D calls and minimal interaction with DirectX it is not much more complex then your typical spreadsheet app. The engine I used for WCNAW could run SAI but not the other way around.
Thanks
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 6, 2016 19:17:30 GMT -6
Let me thank you all again for the numerous suggestions and all the advice you've provided today. I've taken this about as far as I can, following that advice, and am still stuck. Everything is awesome! With regard to the need to update drivers, I followed Chris's advice and installed Driver Booster, which I then used to finish updating all the relevant drivers I and that program could find. Discovered that AMD had declared my graphics card, a Radeon HD 7450, to be a "legacy" product. However, they made a more recent, WHQL-certified driver available for those of us who'd fallen so far behind the curve - the AMD Catalyst 15.7.1 driver. Driver Booster told me the driver for my ViewSonic LCD monitor was up to date - no new ones available in any event and the ViewSonic support website seems about as sucky as they come. But I did use Driver Booster to update the drivers for my IDT HD Audio Codec (that was a treat -IDT had sold that part of their business to a second firm that also did not seem to really embrace the concept of accessible customer support), my AMD audio controller, my AMD IOMMU, and a Realtek PCI GBE family controller. Everything else on board seemed to be up to date. But none of that has broken the back of my problem. After all that updating, I've tried again to run WC-NAW under all three of the screen modes and the compatibility settings for Windows 7, W 8, W XP (SP 3), and W 10. Same frustration - a brief blip as a small window comes and goes almost too quickly to spot. I've tried to run it with my Internet connection in place and disconnected, and with my AV program on and off (that's Avast - works fine for me and has for three years since a local PC technician recommended it after Symantec's program left my previous computer completely infested with viruses). That just about exhausts the ideas you all have put forward today and my willingness to wrestle with this much longer. I should point out again that I do have WC-SAI and SAIC running normally on this same machine. Those programs seemed not to be affected in the same way by the move to Windows 10. Seems a pity. I hope the team can find your problem. Keep in mind, if you can't duplicate the problem, you can't fix it. This is the most frustrating part for the team or anyone doing computer work. If you can't make the problem occur, there is nothing for you to fix. Trust me, after forty years of doing this kind of stuff both on aircraft and in IT, this is the worst case for you to have to work on. Good luck.
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Post by William Miller on Feb 6, 2016 20:50:09 GMT -6
To Dennis, partly true IMHO.. some things work themselves out and other times, well poop happens. I have helped a lot of customers over the phone with intermittent issues before regarding a range of PC gaming apps. Fortunately it is extremely rare for oddities to show up with our titles.
I will try to help him out by phone but it definitely sounds like during his upgrading something between the hardware, drivers, and directX got out of wack. Obviously it would be abundantly easier to try and figure it out if I was in front of his PC but at least a phone call would be faster then using the forum.
Thanks
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 6, 2016 21:22:38 GMT -6
To Dennis, partly true IMHO.. some things work themselves out and other times, well poop happens. I have helped a lot of customers over the phone with intermittent issues before regarding a range of PC gaming apps. Fortunately it is extremely rare for oddities to show up with our titles. I will try to help him out by phone but it definitely sounds like during his upgrading something between the hardware, drivers, and directX got out of wack. Obviously it would be abundantly easier to try and figure it out if I was in front of his PC but at least a phone call would be faster then using the forum. ThanksThat's good, because he seems to be doing the best he can. One of the problems with upgrades is the failure to do good preparation and the manufacturers and Microsoft don't help you much. You have to first, verify the machine is working properly by using a PC diagnostic most times the manufacturer supplies one. After that, ensure that Windows Update has been run and completed successfully. Beyond that, you can run CCleaner and cleanup the register and sometimes turn off items that don't need to be running when the upgrade is finished. This isn't fool proof, but you have to start with a machine that is running properly. Anyway, good luck.
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Post by William Miller on Feb 6, 2016 22:24:53 GMT -6
Thanks Dennis.
Take care friend.
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gaggle44
New Member
retired Foreign Service Officer
Posts: 9
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Post by gaggle44 on Feb 12, 2016 20:30:11 GMT -6
For Christopher Dean- I wanted to thank you again for spending time with me on the phone earlier this week in an effort to find some additional line of attack to solve my problem with WC-NAW. That problem remains unsolved but I have a few observations to pass along that might suggest something to someone, tied to the points we discussed and suggestions made by oldpop2000 over the past week. 1) The DirectPlay issue: I tested this issue again today. Completely uninstalled WC-NAW. Found the Legacy Components box via the Control Panel\Programs route and turned DirectPlay off. Disabled by Avast AV program and installed NAW, v.1.20 from my CD. Tried to open the program from the Desktop shortcut icon. Windows informed me that the app required DirectPlay to run. Of course, Chris was quite clear in our conversation in stating that WCNAW doesn't require and doesn't use DirectPlay. But my version of Windows10 seems to have a different view of the matter. Under "Windows Features" the options on offer were to install DirectPlay or skip it. Tried first to open the game without DirectPlay. That produced an "application was unable to start correctly" warning (attached). Attachment DeletedI then reinstalled DirectPlay and tried to open the game again. Encountered the same familiar error - the game did not open at all apart from the briefest flicker of a small game box in the center of the screen. Trying the various compatibility modes did not change this. Those modes included XP (SP3), Vista (SP2), Windows 7 and Windows 8. The three different screen modes also made no difference. 2) The AMD High Definition Audio Device issue: Chris suggested it might be useful to disable the IDT Hi Def Audio CODEC that my PC uses as the default audio playback device and make the AMD Hi Def Audio Device the default audio driver (also identified as the AMD HDMI Output). I'm not sure how to address this after going over my system again today. Via Control Panel, my sound hardware (audio devices) show up as shown in the attached window: Attachment DeletedNote that the AMD HDMI Output is "not plugged in." When I check its properties, Windows tells me the device is working properly and is located on an "Internal High Definition Audio Bus". It also employs an HDMI Digital Jack for output, which I've never used. Don't know if that digital jack has any bearing on the AMD output not being plugged in, or if the plug in question is an internal connection inside the PC tower. I note also that, when I checked "events" under the Properties window for the AMD HDMI output, the "information" note includes the statement that the device "requires further installation." Meaning what, in lay terms? I'm also attaching a screen grab of the Driver File Details for the AMD HDMI output. Not sure of the significance of the files being located in C:\Windows\system32.... in the context of my 64-bit Win10 OS. Attachment Deleted3) CCleaner and startup programs: I've followed the advice offered earlier by oldpop2000 and done a couple of other things. Went through my startup programs with Task Manager and disabled a substantial number of them. Startup is a bit faster now but poor old WCNAW still won't run. In addition, I've installed CCleaner, the free version, and deleted the files it indicated were superfluous. However, it generated a dauntingly long list of entries in the registry that could be/might be removed. As a pretty ignorant layman I'm not prepared to just whack all those entries wholesale. Can anyone offer advice as to which categories of issues can be deleted without a risk of disabling key functions?? Lots of "Installer Reference Issue" items, for example. Identifying and erasing chaff from the registry seems the next step I could take but some hand-holding would be appreciated. And again, thanks for the time you've already sunk in addressing this seemingly intractable problem. Thank goodness SAI is still running.
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gaggle44
New Member
retired Foreign Service Officer
Posts: 9
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Post by gaggle44 on Feb 12, 2016 20:33:04 GMT -6
Whoops. That first image in my previous post is incorrect, of course. The error message that I got when I tried to start WCNAW without DirectPlay was as follows: Attachment Deleted
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 14, 2016 20:35:51 GMT -6
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Post by William Miller on Feb 21, 2016 23:53:00 GMT -6
Sorry.. didn't see you reply up here, I thought you were going to email me your results.
Why the "DirectPlay" is even showing up is a mystery.. as that is an online DX call, which WCNAW does not use at all and for that matter DirectPlay has been rendered obsolete since DX9.
What is also odd is that we have had quite a few players, and some testers, run WCNAW on Win10 and DX10-11+ with no problem, but then again.. there is a massive number of PC configurations, driver sets, combinations, etc.. out there.
BTW, do you happen to have the AMD/ATI Catalyst Control Center installed? If so.. can you give me a screenshot of the 3D gaming configurations?
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gaggle44
New Member
retired Foreign Service Officer
Posts: 9
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Post by gaggle44 on Feb 24, 2016 14:52:18 GMT -6
Christopher, I agree that this DirectPlay phenomenon is a mystery, not least to my layman's mind. I've located the AMD Catalyst Control Center on my PC and am including with this message screenshots from that program regarding its current 3D setting and "Picture Quality" settings under "Gaming". Perhaps these will suggest something. Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedMeanwhile, I will pursue (gingerly) the suggestions offered by oldpop2000. Looks like a Long March. Thanks again.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 24, 2016 17:35:58 GMT -6
Meanwhile, I will pursue (gingerly) the suggestions offered by oldpop2000. Looks like a Long March. Thanks again. Strongly urge you and all, to create a restore point for your drive or drives before doing any analysis or major changes to your hard disk. Create a system repair disk also. Do not do more than one procedure at a time. Do procedure one, then bounce your system, then use it for a while. Now do the second procedure, following the same pattern. Do this kind of stepwise operation any and all times you perform maintenance or make major changes to the operating system.
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Post by William Miller on Feb 24, 2016 17:42:48 GMT -6
Hi Greg, I need a screenshot of your "gaming" settings.. click that tab.
Thanks
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