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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 15, 2020 16:58:53 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 22, 2020 15:25:01 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 25, 2020 11:07:33 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 30, 2020 17:24:14 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 3, 2020 12:22:22 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Feb 6, 2020 10:15:51 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Apr 1, 2020 8:30:22 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Aug 21, 2020 18:54:35 GMT -6
A TBF has two combat loads, as an example, the torpedo normal and the torpedo overload. What is the difference, the fuel and oil load. In the former, the fuel load is 199 gallons in the center and outboard tanks. In the over load, the fuel load is 301 gallons and the oil load is 17 versus 13. But the real difference is the fuel load.
In the bomber mode, it only has one load-out and that is full fuel and oil, plus 1 x 1000 lbs. bomb.
Now this is just an example. The Kate torpedo bomber most likely has the same weight configuration. One torpedo but two difference fuel and oil loads.
All aircraft have three weight configurations: empty, combat and full. Empty means no fuel, ammunition and ordnance. The combat weight depends on the type of aircraft, the mission and of course ordnance requirements.
For a dive bomber, there could be as many as five bomber configurations and if it is like the SBD, two scout configurations. The scout configuration always had either the same or more fuel load using external tanks. Again, if you want more ordnance, something has to suffer, its usually range.
A fighter can have a fighter configuration either with no external tanks or two maybe even one under the fuselage. If it is going to perform a fighter bomber mission, then it will be configured with a bomb maybe a 1000 lbs. bomb and two external fuel tanks.
The final configuration maximum configuration and I think this is self explanatory. It is the maximum amount of fuel, ammunition and ordnance the plane can carry and still get off of the deck. Now, if the plane is stationed on an island base with and airfield, this can be changed a bit because it will have a long take-off run.
As one can see, this can be very complex. The air operations officer, the fleet admiral and captain with the staff after receiving the scouting report now has to determine range to target and this will dictate the fuel load and that will affect the ordnance load. It can also affect the fleet movements. At Midway, after the confirmation of the Japanese carriers, Spruance turned the Enterprise and Hornet toward the enemy fleet, and raced to meet it. Why? To decrease the range and improve the recovery chances. Fuel load and ordnance load had to be balanced. The key is range which is fuel load. Avgas, BTW, weighs 6 lbs. per gallon. So, if I have 300 gallons total, that is 1800 lbs.
A Yorktown class carrier could carry about 178,000 gallons. If you had 90 aircraft with 300 gallon tanks, that's about 27,000 gallons for air strike. That is 6.5 full strikes and its time tor refuel at sea. The Japanese carrier Kaga stored 154,000 gallons of avgas, Akagi 150,000, while Hiryu and Soryu each carried 134,000 and Zuikaku 150,000 gallons. The later Unryu class had their storage slashed to 48,000 gallons, as it was understood that a carrier or its planes was not likely to live long enough to use much more. The US carrier Lexington carried 132,000 gallons while Enterprise had an avgas stock of 178,000 gallons. The newer Essex carried more, about 240,000 gallons, while the Independence carried 122,000 gallons. The British carrier Illustrious had an avgas stock of 50,540 imperial gallons, Indomitable had more at 75,000, and Implacable carried 94,650. The relatively modest avgas capacity of RN carriers reflects not only that they were intended to operate fewer aircraft but also that they had better access to bases. It was a clear inconvenience late in the war when more and thirstier aircraft were operated. Carrier-borne aircraft had a fuel capacity of 150–300 gallons. There was then avgas for about 10 sorties per plane before replenishment was necessary (with 5–7 sorties typical for late-war RN carriers).
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Post by oldpop2000 on Dec 1, 2020 7:55:19 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 10, 2021 13:49:20 GMT -6
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 12, 2021 14:48:23 GMT -6
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Post by dorn on Jan 11, 2023 16:24:33 GMT -6
Thanks both. I thought that no from Illustrious class aircraft carriers met Ark Royal ....
I am just interested how it would look like both next near each other. One thing is looking at plans, designs, or even separeted photos, other is having 2 ships on one photo - how much large Ark Royal seems.
oldpop2000 : Yes, Gibraltar, it is only place that I think it could happen.
And I find something:
HMS Illustrious
August Short refit at Clydebank before flying exercises with squadrons embarked (Note: External DG Cable replaced by internal wiring. External cable had been damage during Atlantic passage.) Passage to Gibraltar 30th Sailed from Gibraltar for transit of Mediterranean in Force F with HM Battleship VALIANT, HM Anti-Aircraft Cruiser CALCUTTA and COVENTRY covered by ships of Force H to reinforce Mediterranean Fleet at Alexandria. (Operation HATS). (For details of Mediterranean naval activities in 1940-42 see ENGAGE THE ENEMY MORE CLOSELY by Corelli Barnett, THE BATTLE FOR THE MEDITERRANEAN by D MacIntyre and Naval Staff History).
HMS Ark Royal 30th – At 0845 Force H comprising RENOWN (Flag CINC Force H), ARK ROYAL, SHEFFIELD, FAULKNOR (D8), FIREDRAKE, FORESIGHT, FORESTER, FURY, FORTUNE, ENCOUNTER, VELOX and WISHART. Force F comprising VALIANT, ILLUSTRIOUS, COVENTRY, CALCUTTA, GALLANT, GREYHOUND, GRIFFIN and HOTSPUR. Force A comprising JANUS, HERO, MOHAWK and NUBIAN. Sailed from Gibraltar on Operations HATS, SQUAWK, SMASH and GRAB.
So both were at Gibraltar at end of August 1940. I am curios if any photo of this two carrier exists.
The only way to really verify that both were in Gibraltar is to find the log books for both ships. I don't know if the Ark Royals were removed before she sank but they probably were. You can then see if the Log books record the presence of the other ship. I found it. HMS Victorious were operating in 1941 with HMS Ark Royal from Gibraltar for short period of time.
Find even link to one photo. It is clearly visible that HMS Ark Royal has much higher the flight deck.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 12, 2023 7:31:58 GMT -6
The only way to really verify that both were in Gibraltar is to find the log books for both ships. I don't know if the Ark Royals were removed before she sank but they probably were. You can then see if the Log books record the presence of the other ship. I found it. HMS Victorious were operating in 1941 with HMS Ark Royal from Gibraltar for short period of time.
Find even link to one photo. It is clearly visible that HMS Ark Royal has much higher the flight deck.
This confirms your information. Ark Royal had a double hangar running the length of the ship. Her flight deck was 66 feet above the waterline. Victorious had a double hangar, but it did not run the length of the ship. So, her flight deck would have been lower. In fact, it was 38 feet from the flight deck to the waterline. At 2230 Force H comprising RENOWN (Flag CINC Force H), ARK ROYAL, FURIOUS, SHEFFIELD and destroyers FAULKNOR (D8), FEARLESS, FOXHOUND, FORESTER and FURY sailed from Gibraltar into the Atlantic so as to be clear of the harbour should Vichy aircraft attack. Then they proceeded west into the Atlantic to RV with the aircraft carrier VICTORIOUS.[At 2230/31/5/41 convoy WS 8X comprising SS DOUCHESS OF BEDFORD 20123grt with 3100 troops embarked; escorted by the aircraft carrier VICTORIOUS with 6 Fulmars of 800Z Sqd, 9 Swordfish of 825 Sqd and 48 crated Hurricane I embarked; also embarked were a RAF Maintenance Party who were to assemble the Hurricanes en route, heavy cruiser NORFOLK, light cruiser NEPTUNE and AMC ESPERANCE BAY, sailed from the Clyde. At 0700/1/6/41, in position 55-40N, 6-43W the convoy was joined by the MT ships MV WAIWERA 10800grt and MV PORT WYNDHAM 8580grt and the destroyers BRIGHTON, LEGION, PIORUN, SAGUENAY, ST MARYS, SHERWOOD, VANSITTART, WILD SWAN and WIVERN. After forming up the convoy then headed west into the Atlantic at a speed of 14½ knots, this being the maximum speed of the AMC ESPERANCE BAY] [At around 1745/4/6/41 in position 43.32N, 23.56W, a Swordfish of 825 Sqd from VICTORIOUS, sighted a vessel that turned out to be the German reconnaissance ship MV GONZENHEIM 4104grt (ex Norwegian MV KONGSFJORD 4000grt). The GONZENHEIM had been intended to operate with the BISMARCK and had been in contact with the heavy cruiser PRINZ EUGEN on 27/5/41. The Swordfish challenged the German vessel and ordered her to stop and await the arrival of the AMC ESPERANCE BAY who was nearby. However, the GONZENHEIM failed to stop and the ESPERANCE BAY didn't have the speed to catch her. At 1830 the NEPTUNE detached from WS 8X and at around the same time the battleship NELSON detached from convoy SL 75and both headed for the GONZENHEIM. At 2030 in position 43-29N, 24-04W, the NELSON and NEPTUNE intercepted the GONZENHEIM and NEPTUNE was ordered to board. But before this could be achieved the GONZENHEIM scuttled and NEPTUNE picked up the 63 survivors. Both vessels then returned to their respective convoys] [At 0001/7/6/41 when convoy WS 8X was in position 28N, 23W, the VICTORIOUS and NEPTUNE detached to RV with Force H] 8th – Force H exercising in the Atlantic waiting to RV with VICTORIOUS. [During the day there were several submarine alerts and there was a report of a U Boat in the Strait of Gibraltar from a patrolling RAF aircraft. Many of these may well have been false alarms, however, at the time there were several Italian submarines in the area] [At 1100 in approximate position 36N, 17-45W, the VICTORIOUS and NEPTUNE were joined by the destroyers WIVERN, WILD SWAN and VANSITTART. Later in the day the destroyer WRESTLER joined] 9th – At 0650 in approximate position 36-30N, 11-30W, Force H RVed with VICTORIOUS, NEPTUNE, WIVERN, WILD SWAN, WRESTLER and VANSITTART. At 0730 the FURIOUS and SHEFFIELD detached from Force H to join the ARGUS in 47N, 24W and hence to the UK. Force H then cruised to the south west to keep clear of Gibraltar until the Vichy French reaction to Operation EXPORTER could be quantified. The destroyers WIVERN, WILD SWAN, WRESTLER and VANSITTART were detached to Gibraltar. The NEPTUNE was detached to Gibraltar to land German prisoners and captured documents from the German ship GONZENEHEIM. 10th – At 0100 the Admiralty signalled CINC Force H that Operation TRACER was to commence without further delay. At 0130 Force H set course for Gibraltar.
11th – During the early hours Force H passed through the Straits of Gibraltar and into the Mediterranean.
At around 0300 ARK ROYAL, VICTORIOUS and the destroyers detached and proceeded into the Mediterranean.
At around 0500 VICTORIOUS flew off the 9 Swordfish of 825 Sqd and they landed on ARK ROYAL. All nine Swordfish of 825 were equipped with ASV radar.
At around 0800 ARK ROYAL, VICTORIOUS and the destroyers arrived at Gibraltar.
[After both carriers had completed with fuel and stores; VICTORIOUS transferred 26 Hurricanes to ARK ROYAL together with stores for 825 Squadron. ARK ROYAL transferred stores for 820
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Post by oldpop2000 on Jan 13, 2023 19:26:32 GMT -6
Just thought I would submit this design to the group. It is my version of the Atlanta AA cruisers.
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Post by zederfflinger on Jan 13, 2023 21:20:13 GMT -6
Just thought I would submit this design to the group. It is my version of the Atlanta AA cruisers. View AttachmentStrikes me as more of an Atlanta with Dido scale armament.
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