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Post by bcoopactual on May 7, 2017 18:35:12 GMT -6
cv10, I've really enjoyed reading this, well done. It's a shame that you keep losing dreadnoughts on their return because of excess speed. I don't recall this happening nearly as often in RTW as it seems to be happening to you in SAI. I wonder if the ship AI was one of the things they tweaked when they moved over to RTW.
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Post by cv10 on May 7, 2017 18:46:06 GMT -6
cv10 , I've really enjoyed reading this, well done. It's a shame that you keep losing dreadnoughts on their return because of excess speed. I don't recall this happening nearly as often in RTW as it seems to be happening to you in SAI. I wonder if the ship AI was one of the things they tweaked when they moved over to RTW. In fairness, I didn't notice that these ships were in trouble until the bulkheads gave way (they'd been at crusing speed and seemed to be fine). However once those bulkheads gave way, and they were ordered to slow down to 5 knots, they kept jumping back up to 12 before they eventually sank. One thing I've noticed is that weather and sea conditions are far more risky to damaged ships in this game. The previous loss of HMS Thunderer was, in part, caused by heavy weather flooding her after she'd already been damaged in battle, although in its case, the AI did have it at what I thought was too fast a speed. Perhaps a sensible policy on my part would be to disengage and then slow the fleet to 10 knots in order to guard against bulkheads rupturing.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 5:35:33 GMT -6
In RTW ships are not required to return port even, a lot of scenarios are short spanned. In SAI returning to port at scenario end is pretty much a requirement otherwise ships will suffer extra wear and tear, plus the scale of battles are much larger, time is longer, which means more room for mishaps to happen.
However it can indeed be frustrating. For me the solution was captain's mode. I make 20% less VPs but these incidents are avoided. (Yes yes..) But then it is realistic that torpedoes and mines are the real threat to capital ships.
That heavily damaged German BB limped back, I'd like to think when crew status reaches 2 for the RN that would change.
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Post by cv10 on May 8, 2017 15:26:45 GMT -6
That heavily damaged German BB limped back, I'd like to think when crew status reaches 2 for the RN that would change. Since the Grand Fleet and Battlecruiser Force are going to be laid up in the yard for a while, and with winter approaching, my ships will be getting a belly full of drill and training. I really want those crews at 2 so that the next battle with the Germans doesn't end on some marginal victory again. In the meantime, my light forces will be getting some attention as well as so many of my big ships are under repair. There is some good news in that several of my ships are showing crew quality 2 after having been in battle, so I'll also want to see to it that they keep that level of proficiency. All things considered, the fleet's shooting was much better than at Horn's Reef, and I attribute the survival of both of my ships that were torpedoed to their decent crew quality (does that have an impact on damage control?). I'm particularly happy with how the Battlecruiser Force did: it's crews were at "0" yet they really pasted the German fleet during the opening moments of the battle. While it is regrettable that the German Dreadnought got away, she (tentatively identified as SMS Nassau) and two other German dreadnoughts will require two months of repair (according to intelligence sources) before they will be operational again. As another word on repair, in this game (and unlike in RTW) minor damage can require downtime in a shipyard. For example, HMS Invincible took two minor hits, yet she's in the yard for a week, and thus unavailable to me. I think that in RTW, a lot of that minor damage gets repaired after the end of the battle without requiring yard time.
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Post by konstantinua00 on May 8, 2017 15:48:59 GMT -6
well, RTW has 1-month turns,so light, "1-week" damage would be really unimportant
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Post by cv10 on May 8, 2017 15:55:29 GMT -6
After reviewing the location of the ships during the course of the action, the battle fought on Sept. 17th between the Royal Navy and the Imperial German Navy shall henceforth be known and referred to as the Battle of Dogger Bank (1914). As such, the three major actions of the war so far have been the Battle of Horn's Reef, the Bombardment of Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth, and the Battle of Dogger Bank
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Post by cv10 on May 8, 2017 15:57:47 GMT -6
well, RTW has 1-month turns,so light, "1-week" damage would be really unimportant SAI GE also uses month-long turns as well, I'm currently using two-week turns though. In SAI, you'd lose the use of the ship for a month-long turn even if it required only a week of repair.
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Post by fredsanford on May 8, 2017 19:39:59 GMT -6
During the winter, I suggest you push the refits for your ships ahead as much as possible (i.e. before they are due). For one, winter is a bad time for a major fleet action since days are short and weather is bad (light ship action is ok, especially if the Germans have heavy units available for torpedoing). Second, if you can get ahead of the refits for your big ships, once spring comes you can have some periods where all of you ships are available. Third, if there is a major fleet action with lots of ships damaged, refits can be ignored for time while your yards concentrate on battle damage repair.
One thing I've done successfully before is sortie a CA squadron along with oodles of CL's and DD's. Put the CL's on 'search' per usual, but have them supported by whole flotillas of DD's (the single CL "flotilla leader" divisions are good for this, supported by 3 or 4 DD divs each). When you run into the enemy, they'll make contact with your CL/DD gangs. Since you only have a CA squadron, the AI will want to press the attack since they've got you outgunned. Fall back with the CA's and put your DD's on flotilla attack and 'independent' and watch from a safe distance as your DD's wreak havoc. Be prepared to lose a bunch of DD's, though as the British you have more than enough to spare. Life is cheap when you're a DD in my navy...
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Post by cv10 on May 9, 2017 14:05:04 GMT -6
I've just read the section where Admiral Jackie Fisher was discussed. I'll say this for him, even though some of his ideas were rather ludicrous (the large light cruisers being a notable example), he was one of the greatest luminaries with regard to naval technology in history. The dreadnought and battlecruiser both revolutionized naval design, he was an early supporter of air power, and just before his death in 1920 expressed a belief that the battleship was going to be made obsolete by the aircraft carrier.
As director discussed, he was rather controversial due to his desire to buck tradition that caused him to run up against Admiral Lord Charles Beresford. Beresford is one of those interesting people in military history, where everything seemed to indicate that he would get the top job of 1st Sea Lord, but was ultimately prevented from obtaining the position. He was C.O. of the Med. Fleet and the Channel Fleet, yet was ultimately stymied in his goal of becoming 1st Sea Lord. He's also one of those figures in history who was their own worst enemy. On several occasions as a fleet commander, he gave orders to ships during maneuvers which, if they had been obeyed, would have caused collisions.
He also seemed to go out of his way to antagonize people with a great deal of influence. A scandal involving Beresford's wife trying to blackmail the Countess of Warwick (who he had an affair with) provoked a bitter feud with King Edward VII (not really great in the early 1900s if you want to be uniformed chief of the Navy). He alienated Admiral Fisher during the latter's time as commander of the Med. Fleet (Fisher had been born to a middle-class family, and Beresford resented taking orders from what he deemed a jumped-up social inferior). He furthered this by trying to advocate for Fisher's removal as 1st Sea Lord due to his own desire for the Job (Fisher had been made Admiral of the Fleet, which moved his expected retirement date past when Beresford would be retired at the mandatory age of 65, so the only way that he could ever be made 1st Sea Lord was if Fisher was kicked out of office). He tried to wreck the career of Percy Scott, the famous gunnery innovator, over a perceived slight involving an order Scott gave to HMS Roxburgh (she was ordered to prepare for a fleet review for the Kaiser, and when her captain asked if he could stay out and finish gunnery drills, Scott replied "Paintwork deemed more important than gunnery, so you had better come in by the 8th to make yourself pretty"). Beresford wanted him court-martialed for insubordination, but the Admiralty decided that the charge was groundless, although they weren't happy with the levity. Further compounding this, he attacked Churchill while he was 1st Lord, with Churchill noting that Beresford accused him of betraying the navy after only two weeks in office. His method of forwarding his own interests seemes to be what Ben Franklin once described as the strategy of the "direct insult followed by the petulant whine"
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Post by director on May 9, 2017 21:51:10 GMT -6
Just an opinion here - but the Royal Navy officers outside the 'Fishpond' (the group of Fisher's supporters and devotees) seem to have been every bit as blinkered and blimpy as the army officers of the same period.
Having wounded ships go down because their AI captains insist on driving them under at high speed is one of my absolute worst peeves about RtW (or in this case the SAI-part of RtW). I hope that gets a look during the RtW2 process. I've settled on always keeping wounded ships in sight by slowing the entire fleet down - and paid for it with a sub strike once or twice, too.
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Post by boomboomf22 on May 9, 2017 22:01:12 GMT -6
Just an opinion here - but the Royal Navy officers outside the 'Fishpond' (the group of Fisher's supporters and devotees) seem to have been every bit as blinkered and blimpy as the army officers of the same period. Having wounded ships go down because their AI captains insist on driving them under at high speed is one of my absolute worst peeves about RtW (or in this case the SAI-part of RtW). I hope that gets a look during the RtW2 process. I've settled on always keeping wounded ships in sight by slowing the entire fleet down - and paid for it with a sub strike once or twice, too. This so much. Just 8ish mere hours ago I lost a fine new 10*13" Dreadnought to a Russian sub as the germans. The worst part was I have torp protection 2 on those ships, but the AI flooded it to death and I had slowed the fleet down for a semi-dread and one of my BCs. In any other game that would have caused me to save scum, but the scenario autosave makes that impossible.
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Post by joebob73 on May 10, 2017 4:45:53 GMT -6
Just an opinion here - but the Royal Navy officers outside the 'Fishpond' (the group of Fisher's supporters and devotees) seem to have been every bit as blinkered and blimpy as the army officers of the same period. Having wounded ships go down because their AI captains insist on driving them under at high speed is one of my absolute worst peeves about RtW (or in this case the SAI-part of RtW). I hope that gets a look during the RtW2 process. I've settled on always keeping wounded ships in sight by slowing the entire fleet down - and paid for it with a sub strike once or twice, too. That's why I play on Captain's mode. No "Hey lets drive my heavily flooding battlecruiser at FLANK SPEED until it sinks" or **** like that to deal with. Just an opinion here - but the Royal Navy officers outside the 'Fishpond' (the group of Fisher's supporters and devotees) seem to have been every bit as blinkered and blimpy as the army officers of the same period. Having wounded ships go down because their AI captains insist on driving them under at high speed is one of my absolute worst peeves about RtW (or in this case the SAI-part of RtW). I hope that gets a look during the RtW2 process. I've settled on always keeping wounded ships in sight by slowing the entire fleet down - and paid for it with a sub strike once or twice, too. This so much. Just 8ish mere hours ago I lost a fine new 10*13" Dreadnought to a Russian sub as the germans. The worst part was I have torp protection 2 on those ships, but the AI flooded it to death and I had slowed the fleet down for a semi-dread and one of my BCs. In any other game that would have caused me to save scum, but the scenario autosave makes that impossible. Autosave can be turned off if you like... Also, that's incredibly unlucky to lose a ship with TDS lv2 to a single torpedo. Some of my legacy fleet ships have survived endgame torpedoes despite not having any form of torpedo protection.
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Post by cv10 on May 10, 2017 12:37:40 GMT -6
I'm going to be occupied until Saturday afternoon, so the planning for the next turn will probably not be done until then, with the operation phase probably coming on Sunday. Just got Robert K. Massie's Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War, and Castles of Steel from the library for some light reading. Should make good reading once I can find the time to read them.
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Post by babylon218 on May 10, 2017 12:50:55 GMT -6
I'm going to be occupied until Saturday afternoon, so the planning for the next turn will probably not be done until then, with the operation phase probably coming on Sunday. Just got Robert K. Massie's Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War, and Castles of Steel from the library for some light reading. Should make good reading once I can find the time to read them. I can say from experience that those are very good reads. Though 'light reading' is not how I'd describe them.
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Post by director on May 10, 2017 13:23:48 GMT -6
I found 'Dreadnought' to be terrifically interesting because the focus is on personalities and politics. 'Castles of Steel' is informative but very dry... factual but without the 'zing' of the first book, so not nearly as readable.
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