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Post by ddg on Nov 12, 2017 19:28:14 GMT -6
Only Wikipedia, but perhaps you can find one of the sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Austria-HungaryA quick Google search got me a couple of other results claiming Austro-Hungarian economic growth as among the fastest in Europe during the period 1870-1914, in part because the economy was fairly backward to begin with and relatively modest reforms could produce strong results.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 12, 2017 19:35:37 GMT -6
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Post by tortugapower on Nov 12, 2017 21:09:46 GMT -6
I'm 90% sure that there is a bug with Italian economic growth. At the start of the game, they have a proper budget, eventually they fall way behind. Also, forgot to mention you, but thanks Airy W for pointing this out. I'll continue my case study, but there definitely seems to be something to what you said.
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Post by alan66 on Nov 14, 2017 12:56:08 GMT -6
Tortuga, You can refer to Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers for a thorough write up of the economies of the great powers in this era. I believe he addresses AH, and dispenses with the myth of AH's growth, but its been decades since I've read it myself, so don't quote me.
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Post by Fredrik W on Nov 14, 2017 13:21:51 GMT -6
Tortuga, You can refer to Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers for a thorough write up of the economies of the great powers in this era. I believe he addresses AH, and dispenses with the myth of AH's growth, but its been decades since I've read it myself, so don't quote me. Kennedy's book was part of the research for the economic model in the game. Not that I claim to have gotten it completely right, national economies are awfully hard to simulate and there are myriad factors that can affect things, most of them outside the scope of the game.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 14, 2017 13:28:15 GMT -6
Tortuga, You can refer to Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers for a thorough write up of the economies of the great powers in this era. I believe he addresses AH, and dispenses with the myth of AH's growth, but its been decades since I've read it myself, so don't quote me. Paul Kennedy's book is excellent and I have had it since it first came out. It really shows the economies of each great power. I now have it on Kindle.
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Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 14, 2017 13:31:52 GMT -6
Tortuga, You can refer to Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers for a thorough write up of the economies of the great powers in this era. I believe he addresses AH, and dispenses with the myth of AH's growth, but its been decades since I've read it myself, so don't quote me. Kennedy's book was part of the research for the economic model in the game. Not that I claim to have gotten it completely right, national economies are awfully hard to simulate and there are myriad factors that can affect things, most of them outside the scope of the game. Fredric, even the economist can't get the model's correct. I think you have done well. It's game.... just like real economic modelling. It's hard to model human actions.
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Post by Airy W on Nov 15, 2017 0:19:49 GMT -6
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.
... but the past on the other hand, you might just have a shot.
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Nov 28, 2017 8:42:06 GMT -6
[Nation4] Name=Italy Name2=Italian TroubleRegion=in the Balkans Leader=Prime Minister AdmiralRank=Ammiraglio AdmiralName=Cuniberti BuildAreaName=The Mediterranean GovernmentType=1 FlagFileName=Rm.bmp DockSize=15000 Accuracy=0 DamageControl=0 FlahFires=1 Corruption=30I don't know exactly how corruption is measured, or what the applicable effect is, but Italy has 30 of it, regardless. I've been thinking about this post, and wonder if we shouldn't run an experiment- have several people start an Italy game, and set different levels for corruption. My personal suspicion is that it is a simple 1 in 30 chance that the "lose money" event triggers, but we should be able to find out easily enough. Anyone care to sign-up for the exploration? All we'd have to do is select different values and stay un-defeated until 1925, keeping track of budget growth.
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Post by Airy W on Nov 28, 2017 9:08:50 GMT -6
I did a game as Italy where I removed the corruption modifier entirely, and the poor education modifier to boot. Then I won a war against Austria so that I had more resources then them. And they STILL outgrew me...
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Post by bcoopactual on Nov 28, 2017 10:23:46 GMT -6
I grabbed some data out of the BNat file that I think might add to the discussion. The descriptions are from the Custom Nation Editor instructions. [Edit - I didn't put it in the table but another factor that definitely affects the budget of Great Britain is that they are the only nation in the BNat file to have the Global Naval Power trait. One of the features of that per the manual is they may get automatic budget raises if any other nation has a similar budget. I'm assuming that simulates Britain's determination that if Germany was going to build N-number of dreadnoughts they were going to spend whatever it took to build N+3 or whatever it took to maintain a numerical dominance over their nearest rival. So regardless of other factors, GB's budget may get boosted any time another nation's matches or comes close to theirs.] [Edit2 - I didn't include the CSA or Spain because they weren't in the Bnat file. However, I just looked through the four CSA and Spain.nat files and they don't have GGP, RGP1 and RGP2 listed at all so I'll assume that both nations are all zeros as well.]
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Post by garrisonchisholm on Nov 28, 2017 15:00:47 GMT -6
That is a fascinating chart. Japan is really set, and Italy is unexplained..
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Post by bcoopactual on Nov 28, 2017 16:52:51 GMT -6
That is a fascinating chart. Japan is really set, and Italy is unexplained.. Yeah, ddg would be able to do more with the numbers than I could but if you look at 0, 1 and 2 as no bonus, some bonus and more bonus then it seems to make sense that A-H's and Japan's budgets would see significant first half growth compared to Italy's with other economics factors remaining close to the same or changing equally for the different nations. And that 30 corruption is just sitting there being quite conspicuous but I have no idea what it really does.
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Post by Airy W on Nov 28, 2017 22:02:29 GMT -6
I grabbed some data out of the BNat file that I think might add to the discussion. The descriptions are from the Custom Nation Editor instructions. Having those side by side really clarifies everything. If Italy has that slow growth, they need to have a massively larger starting resource base. "Historical" budgets at max size Britain 40M USA 26M Germany 16M France 16M Russia 16M Japan 10M Austria 10M Italy 10M Spain 8M It makes sense for Italy to be behind Russia and France but probably not that far behind. I think something along these lines: Starting Budget/GGP/RGP1/RGP2 Britain 40M/0/0/0 USA 20M/1/2/2 Germany 16M/0/2/0 France 16M/0/0/0 Russia 16M/0/0/0 Italy 12M/0/1/1 Japan 8M/1/2/1 Austria 8M/0/2/0 Spain 8M/0/0/0
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Post by ddg on Nov 28, 2017 22:25:11 GMT -6
I'll share some data from my USA test game with Game Resources, which ran on a slightly older version (ca. February 2016) but should be largely correct. I believe the only change to the economy since then was the diminution of colonial possessions' value over time. Growth Type | USA | Germany | Great Britain | France | Russia | Japan | Italy | 1% | 86 | 53 | 58 | 46 | 47 | 61 | 48 | 350,000 | 13 | 14 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14 | 0 | 500,000 | 8 | 8 | 7 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | Overall | 352% | 243% | 227% | 197% | 199% | 334% | 206% |
The Growth Type column indicates the three main sources of national resource growth. "1%" is a simple one percent increase in national resources; the others are flat injections of that many resources. There were several others, but they were far less common overall and generally correspond to wars and certain events ( e.g. the railroad event and a recession). The rows indicate the number of months during the course of the game that each growth event occurred for each nation in the game. I played through to the standard end date, for a total of 312 months. The final row, Overall, shows total resource growth as a ratio of end-game resources to starting resources. Thus, the United States ended the game with a 252% gain in national resources over January 1900. Note the nations that get the 350k event type: USA, Germany, and Japan all have at least one RGP. What I'm not sure about here is why they all have approximately the same number of events when they have different RGP values. I believe the 500k event type is "Recent improvements in productivity has boosted our industrial production" since each nation has approximately the same number of them. The other major thing to observe here is that there appear to be three different tracks for the percentage growth: One about 45-50, one about 55-60, and the United States. This leads me to believe that different nations are written to experience different rates of percentage growth beyond USA's Rapid Economic Growth trait. In the above, I assume that all events occur randomly with a given per-turn probability and that this accounts for the small variations between otherwise-close values.
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