AiryW
Full Member
Posts: 183
|
Post by AiryW on Nov 24, 2018 7:37:51 GMT -6
Were Russian ships cramped? Given their propensity for extreme ranges I would expect they would need at least some accommodation.
|
|
|
Post by baggers on Nov 24, 2018 9:47:31 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by baggers on Nov 25, 2018 0:31:20 GMT -6
Were Russian ships cramped? Given their propensity for extreme ranges I would expect they would need at least some accommodation. About that, what is considered a "cramped" accomodation, what's a "normal" one?
Some example from the internet:
Admiral Graf Spee (Kriegsmarine) accomodation:
USS texas BB-35 accommodation (US Navy)
HMS Courageous accommodation (Royal Navy)
Modern nuclear submarine accommodation:
HMS Queen Elizabeth accommodation
(look very cosy)
So, remember: when you go for a "cramped" accommodation, all you give your crew to sleep is a small place in the bottom of ship to put a hammock 4 inches next to another one.
|
|
|
Post by cv10 on Nov 25, 2018 0:39:59 GMT -6
I don't know enough about Russian warships to say if they were considered cramped by the standards of the day. I doubt life aboard them was particularly pleasant (IIRC, the Potemkin mutiny was provoked in part because the crew were served rations that included maggot-ridden meat that had rotted, which the crew refused to eat).
German warships (at least the capital ships) were considered cramped, particularly in terms of crew quarters. Since the ships were designed for slugging matches in the North Sea close to home bases, crew quarters were not considered to be a major priority (as compared to a ship that is expected to steam long distances and spend a lot of time out at sea). The Germans tended to quarter part of each ship's company ashore in barracks when the fleet was in port in order to alleviate the problem.
|
|
|
Post by baggers on Nov 25, 2018 1:08:41 GMT -6
Thanks! An interressing link: battleshiptexas.info/html/Crew/Berthing/Enlisted.htmlAs a ship change propulsion, or add a bunch of secondary guns, the number of crews and allowed space for crew change. A bunk and a locker for every crew member, and some retractable wooden tables is probably what we would consider "normal" accommodation for RTW timeline? "Cramped" would be a hammock, a sea bag, and having to find a place somewhere to sleep.
|
|
|
Post by hrcak47 on Nov 25, 2018 3:40:15 GMT -6
Piracy in Somalia is an interesting thing.
Back in 70s and 80s, Yugoslavia was creating fishing boats for free, as donations to Somalia and Ethiopia. Teach a man to fish, and all that jazz. They were able to fish around their coastline and support fishermen as a trade, as well as their population. Boats worked even during the war.
Then modern Spanish and Italian fishing fleets came and absolutely plowed the coastline with their nets, which was happening until 2010s, just for us to be able to buy cheap tuna cans. Only logical choice for the Somalis was the piracy, tbh.
|
|
|
Post by ursamaior on Nov 25, 2018 7:50:46 GMT -6
Piracy in Somalia is an interesting thing. Back in 70s and 80s, Yugoslavia was creating fishing boats for free, as donations to Somalia and Ethiopia. Teach a man to fish, and all that jazz. They were able to fish around their coastline and support fishermen as a trade, as well as their population. Boats worked even during the war. Then modern Spanish and Italian fishing fleets came and absolutely plowed the coastline with their nets, which was happening until 2010s, just for us to be able to buy cheap tuna cans. Only logical choice for the Somalis was the piracy, tbh. According to some sources since the civil war ridden country had no fleet so some countries have started dumping toxic waste there and the dumped poisons killed the local fauna.Who knows for sure?
|
|
|
Post by oldpop2000 on Nov 25, 2018 12:32:32 GMT -6
What is the difference between a Pirate, Privateer and a surface raider. Well, a pirate is a person or persons who use the sea to commit theft. It is a loosely defined term. Even the Vikings were considered pirates. But a pirate is breaking the law.
Now a privateer is person or person granted a license by their government to attack shipping belonging an enemy government generally during a war. Privateers are private contractors if you will.
The surface raider whether it was an armed merchant or a naval vessel like a light cruiser or armored cruiser, had three important tasks. To sink or capture ships, which the auxiliary cruisers like Kormoran and Atlantis actually did. They would capture a vessel, especially tankers, put a skeleton crew on board and send it to a rendezvous point to refuel the raider and other ships. Sometimes valuable cargoes were sent back to the native country. Naval surface raiders generally just sank enemy merchant ships and tankers. The second important task was to disrupt the enemy nations trade routes. The third was the cause the enemy to withdraw naval ships from another battle area to search for the raider. This last task was probably the most important. Graf Spee only sank 50,000 tons of shipping but she had twenty British vessels searching for her, many from the Home Fleet like the HMS Renown. Bismarck, although she never made it out, had over fifty British ships searching for her, including two aircraft carriers. I don’t how many Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had during their period as surface raiders. The point here is that surface raiders and U-boats also had three main purposes. The most important might not have been sinking ships, although that was the U-boats primary purpose.
So how does the game present these issues? I don’t know but hopefully it is within the internal structure of the game.
|
|
|
Post by tbr on Nov 25, 2018 18:58:31 GMT -6
Honestly, having gone to sea in accommodations very much like in the Graf Spee picture (on Gorch Fock), I would prefer those to the USS Texas accommodations. When at sea and in a war watch rhythm the "cramped" aspect of hammock decks does not come to pass as only half of the crew in that deck sleeps there at the same time. Hammocks are definitely more comfortable than sparse bunks and accommodation decks with hammocks also are more roomy in the daytime. The drawback is more about livability in port or at "sea station" in peacetime. A four watch rhythm sees three quarters of crew asleep in hammocks at the same time with two watch changes during the night that disrupt even those who do not go on watch. There is no space for enlisted crew to withdraw into some privacy even in-port on a Sunday. Even US WWII style enlisted accomodations with the fixed 3-4 tiered bunks were better in there as every sailor has its own bunk with acurtain and therefore some measure of privacy.
|
|