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Post by cwemyss on Jan 28, 2019 12:10:52 GMT -6
You don't get a bonus to flotation points for unused tonnage. 70 tons is little enough even on a CL that leaving it unused probably isn't going to hurt anything, but it's also not benefiting you at all and it's probably enough for you to be able to do something with it. [/div]
[/quote] I know... and I'll take another look, but if I remember it wasn't enough for more secondaries or meaningful added armor. I look at it as growth potential, since I'm eventually going to re-engine it for more speed.
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Post by akosjaccik on Jan 28, 2019 12:13:22 GMT -6
In the meantime, storing extra ammunition is always a simple answer for unused tonnage, that can be freed up later if or when needed.
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Post by director on Jan 28, 2019 16:46:57 GMT -6
cwemyss - I have a set of more Imperial French ship names. If you want it, PM me with an email address (we can't attach files to PMs). Is that the same names you posted in the custom ship name thread? bcoopactual - Yep. Forgot about that: thanks for the reminder.
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Post by cwemyss on Feb 2, 2019 22:42:40 GMT -6
So I finally completed my legacy fleet. Clearly, for those who want a quick read... this may not be it. Also, not helped AT ALL by Photobucket bogging down my computer in constantly fighting adware/etc. Anyone have a suggestion for a better place to host photos?
I'm also still debating whether to run with a fictional narrative style, or just rip through the straight facts. I'll be back with more tomorrow, possibly in lieu of watching a certain football game.
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Post by barrybull on Feb 3, 2019 4:53:17 GMT -6
It would be interesting to see whether a 'Young School' fleet would encounter the same problem in game as its OTL counterpart, i.e. too defensive oriented and not useful for power projection and trade protection.
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Post by JagdFlanker on Feb 3, 2019 6:31:07 GMT -6
Anyone have a suggestion for a better place to host photos?
Imgur has worked for me the last few years
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Post by admiral on Feb 3, 2019 19:27:46 GMT -6
I think it's certainly possible militarily speaking, although yes I do think you may be forced to build a few due to politics.
Militarily speaking, I guess we could ask what the purpose of battleships is, if that purpose is necessary, if there are ways to fill it with other vessels, or other things you could do to make up for their absence.
Firstly, the purpose of battleships is to destroy the enemy with long-range gunnery while carrying armor that prevents them from being damaged in kind. The ultimate in naval firepower and protection and capable of single-handedly destroying any other single vessel in direct combat.
Secondly, this purpose generally comes into play in large fleet engagements. There are several kinds of engagements where battleships aren't allowed or don't appear, such as destroyer engagements and (most) convoy raider interceptions. In an entire 25 year game I once had a pre-dreadnaught intercept a raider. It can happen, but is so rare you can discount it as never happening at all. Technically speaking, it's possible to fight and win wars without the large fleet engagements where battleships reign. In particular convoy raiding is a great way to show off your medium vessels like CAs and CLs due to the small engagement sizes.
That being said, I suppose you could fill in the battleship gap in battlecruisers, which are more flexible both tactically due to their higher speed and strategically given they can perform more missions (such as convoy raiding, last time I checked. I'm playing again after a hiatus so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). While they are more poorly suited to direct fleet engagement due to having less armor or firepower than a battleship, they can withdraw more quickly so this somewhat evens out. Just be careful. Battlecruisers are also the king of convoy raiding and interception, given most enemy raiders or interceptors will be CLs or CAs. That being said, I would recommend either high engine reliability, long or extreme range, or both, considering that if a BC is interned in a port due to running out of fuel that's a much bigger loss than a CL or CA raider.
As for CAs, I'm not sure myself how to use them, even in conventional gameplay. I suppose in the first few years of the game you could forsake building Bs in exchange for getting a headstart on CA production, given that CAs generally carry a roughly equal amount of firepower as Pre-Dreadnaughts (i.e. 10 inch guns to 11 or 12-inch). Then again, CAs are kind of an odd duck for me since it's hard to find a role for them that justifies their cost that isn't better fulfilled by another ship type.
Want a heavy scouting force for your capital ships? BCs do just fine. Heavy Raider/Interceptor that's practically guaranteed to win a 1-v-1 battle against an enemy CL or CA? Ditto BC. Coastal defense, ASW, and capital escorting goes to DDs and CLs. Foreign Station goes to Pre-dreadnaughts once they become outdated due to their large tonnage. The ideal CA would have to be something very specific: more powerful for its cost than either a CL or BC, and that's a very hard line to manage. There's no point in building a CA that's 3 times as expensive as a CL but 2/3 the cost of a BC or BB.
CAs in my experience are really more of an opportunistic class that come about when your CLs are too weak to operate in fleet battles or in raiding operations (I once neglected my CLs and the only ones I had were equipped with 6 6-inch guns) yet also your BCs are too expensive. I suppose you could create a space for CAs by building tons of weak CLs and a handful of super-BCs, but if you're trying to create a space for a unit in your military instead of just having its purpose come naturally to meet your needs, that's a bad sign.
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Post by cwemyss on Feb 4, 2019 23:17:53 GMT -6
01 January 1900 Amiral de la Flotte Charles Bettancourt closed his eyes and sat back, savoring the aroma of the liquid that would help him get through what promised to be a painful day. Yesterday’s ceremony had been a long, stilted, formal affair, lasting through most of a cold drizzly afternoon in Brest. Last night’s events, celebrating both his promotion and the turn of a new century, had extended well into the early morning hours with well-wishing and a now-regrettable excess of wine. He would certainly pay the price today, and coffee seemed the only possible answer. Looking out the window of his new office he could see construction ongoing at the Pontaniou docks, promising a great expansion of the base’s maintenance capability. In his previous position he had directed the start of that work, as well as major expansion at the southern base of Toulon. He was still a young man at 42 and he had been Vice-Amiral until yesterday, overseeing a significant modernization of the navy and laying out and imposing a new operating and shipbuilding strategy. And while he was in fact young for his new role, much younger than his counterparts in London or Kiel, that was the way of today’s Marine Nationale. In spite of occasional fits of strategic indecision, the powers that be favored new schools of thought regarding the development of ships and tactics. So in addition to managing construction and expansion, he’d also spent a large portion of the last two years acting as his predecessor’s hammer: clearing out overly comfortable officers and staff, ushering in a more youthful generation of leaders, and generally helping overturn tradition. He took a long sip of coffee and turned back to the papers in front of him. They included intelligence reports, a summary of the worlds fleets, and the general state of affairs. While there were simmering resentments with Italy regarding a colonial skirmish in the Horn of Africa last summer, relationships with the other great powers were excellent, even cordial. And in fact relations with the English were at about as promising as they’d been since before Agincourt. He turned next to the state of his own fleet. The two largest ships, battleships Charlemagne and Richelieu, would be joined in a year’s time by the Roi Soleil. If Bettancourt had his say, those would be the last of the beasts to enter service. Until naval engineers came up with a better solution, he had no intention of continuing to spend francs on ponderous relics. Charlemagne Class BattleshipsCharlemagne, Richelieu Building: Roi Soleil The Marine Nationale’s future lay with the fast cruisers. The Gueydon class (12100 tons) and the newer Montcalms (15000 tons) would be the backbone of the fleet, paired with the lighter Sfax class (6700 tons) to control the seas. They were strong enough to sweep away all but the largest opposing warships, and fast enough to range far and wide interdicting enemy convoys and trade. Gueydon Class Armored CruisersGueydon, Lodi, Desaix, Dupleix Montcalm Class Armored CruisersMontcalm, Jeanne d’Arc, Latouche-Treville Building: Kleber, DeGrasse Sfax Class Protected CruisersSfax, Dunkerque, Lille, Lyon, Orleans Nantes, Le Havre, Nice, Marseille Building: Paris, Rouen France’s far-flung overseas outposts required something different, and they were patrolled largely by the Champlain class. These 2100-ton ships were something of a new concept, even faster than the main cruisers of the fleet but lightly armed and armored. In times of peace they would show the flag and provide muscle as needed in case of any colonial flareups. In times of war they would likely turn to raiding enemy commerce, using their 24-knot speed to prey on shipping while avoiding engagements with larger opponents. Four members of the twelve-strong class would be kept in Brest for reserve and training duties, and the remaining 8 had been deployed to various foreign stations. Champlain Class Light CruisersChamplain, Cartier, La Perouse, Ribault, Picault, Bougainville Beaulieu, Bouet-Willaumez, Dumont d’Urville, Duperrey Dupetit Thouars, Freycinet The remainder of the fleet consisted of 20 ships of the Durandal class, destroyers of 500 tons, and a few Patrouilleur-class fleet auxilliaries. In fleet exercises the destroyers had died quick and futile deaths, and Bettancourt didn't hold much hope for their future. The Patrouilleurs would be used for harbor security at Brest and Toulon, and the thousand mundane but necessary duties that sort of ship always takes on. Durandal Class Torpedo Boat DestroyersDurandal, Espingole, Fauconneau, Epee, Hallebarde Framee, Pique, Yatagan, Escopette, Pertusiane Flamberge, Arbalette, Rapiere, Arquebuse, Baliste Bombarde, Belier, Carabine, Dard, Arc Building: Catapulte, Epieu, Francisque, Fronde Patrouilleur Class Fleet AuxilliariesP1, P2, P3, P4 Building: P5, P6, P7, P8 Bettancourt had just picked up a report from his fleet engineer when a knock at the door interrupted his quiet late morning. “It is time, sir,” intoned his Staff Adjutant, Capitaine Pierre Tremblay. Tremblay had served in various postings with Bettancourt, on and off since Paknam. Bettancourt drained the last of his coffee and stood up, subconsciously straightening his uniform, and smiled. “Do you suppose this will be any different than last time, Pierre?” The last formal fleet review, 10 months previously, had honored the ascension of Emile Loubet to the French presidency, and had been more of a thumb in the Army’s eye than anything else. “Not to you, sir, but the fleet have been looking forward to this for a while,” Tremblay replied. “Then let’s not keep them waiting,” Bettancourt said, beginning the short walk from his office to the pierside.
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Post by director on Feb 5, 2019 0:30:39 GMT -6
And so it begins!
I shall watch with interest.
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Post by akosjaccik on Feb 5, 2019 7:26:18 GMT -6
While it will be an interesting test of concept in itself, I also have to commend on the writing, it was very clever! Looking forward to it.
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Post by boomboomf22 on Feb 5, 2019 11:11:22 GMT -6
Ohhh, a new aar to follow, awesome
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Post by cwemyss on Feb 8, 2019 17:14:38 GMT -6
03 January 1900 The rhythmic sound of the train wheelset running across joints in the rails would normally be soothing, but right now it was just serving to increase Amiral Bettancourt’s ire. The fleet review in Brest on Monday had gone extremely well, with the normal January weather even breaking up long enough to let the sun shine through. He had met Amiral Jean-Luc Marchand at the pier and they’d taken a tour by tender through the fleet. He and Marchand had attended the Ecole Navale together, and they were of a similar mind on most topics. The battleship Charlemagne, three armored cruisers, and three light fleet cruisers were neatly arrayed in the Brest roadstead, freshly painted and with crews manning the rails. They’d stopped aboard the four largest ships, discussed a wide variety of topics, and enjoyed an excellent dinner aboard Marchand's flagship, the armored cruiser Montcalm. This morning’s tour in Toulon had been a different story. After a long day’s train travel and a fitful night’s sleep, Bettancourt had been forced to wait for Amiral Fabron to arrive. Threatening grey clouds had rolled in from the Mediterranean since before dawn and finally broke into a lengthy downpour as he waited, outwardly patient and inwardly seething. Fabron’s tardiness, though brief enough and well-enough excused to preclude a public reprimand, had been a poor start and the weather had only focused Bettancourt’s aggravation. He suspected the delay was an intentional snub as the more senior Fabron was known to be unhappy with Bettancourt’s appointment as Chief of Staff. Fabron had declined to put his men to work cleaning and painting in advance of the event and the resulting condition of the ships they toured hadn’t improved Bettancourt's outlook. The crews were also noticeably less sharp than the Atlantic fleet had been, and all in all it had been a lousy day. Now Bettancourt was on a train heading north, due to meet with the Ministre de la Marine in Paris just after daybreak. Capitane Tremblay entered the coach from the dining car, bearing dinner, a welcome cup a coffee, and a much less-appreciated stack of papers.
“These came in to Toulon while you were touring le cirque,” he said. “I thought you’d want to dry off and warm up before dealing with business.”
“Pierre, you know better,” Bettancourt said, scowling. “Even in private I can’t allow you to refer to our largest fleet as a circus. And you’d better be damned sure no one else hears it.”
Bettancourt dismissed Tremblay, who was only too happy to leave his normally-amiable boss to his work. Bettancourt sipped from the steaming cup while opening the first of the folders. It contained a telegram from Vice-Amiral Guy Travers, in Cochinchina, formally reporting the status of the Escadre Asiatique. It also held reports from the various other units posted throughout the colonies. While the term was out of style, La Troisieme Republique still bore close resemblance to an empire, with responsibilities on all continents. As the sun set over the Massif Central and daylight faded in the Rhone valley, Bettancourt’s train continued clicking north. He opened the final folder, containing his navy’s budget projections, his single biggest headache. The total was estimated to be less than 2/3 of what the United Kingdom was able to spend, and less even than Germany, yet he was expected to maintain primacy over all potential enemies, present and future. Since he refused to skimp on training, currently focused on gunnery and torpedoes, and since he was spending a small fortune every month on scientific research and engineering development, not much remained for shipbuilding. If his current budget weren’t increased he’d be able to lay down a new Armored Cruiser about every 15 months, and a new Sfax-class every eight months or so. The state of the Navy’s books would be the primary focus of tomorrow’s discussion with his political master.
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Post by cwemyss on Feb 9, 2019 21:14:31 GMT -6
17 June 1900 Capitaine Christy Palliere leaned against the rail of the Montcalm’s starboard bridge wing, staring aft at the long wake the 15000-ton cruiser painted across the Bay of Biscay. He absently stubbed out a cigarette as he thought about the exercise just concluded. Four destroyers fresh off the builder’s stocks, and manned with horribly green crews, had done nearly everything wrong… but had still achieved a firing position on his ship and on the lumbering Charlemagne, now silhouetted against the sunset. Palliere’s command had been in the fleet only six months and could not claim to have performed with any particular distinction. Filled largely with new recruits not much longer in the service than the ship, the ship’s crew was still struggling to come to grips with the modern powerplant, armament, and fire control system that Montcalm carried. Farm kids and fishermen from small towns throughout France, most of them had never seen an electric light before joining the Marine Nationale. And the ship itself, first of it’s class, was still working through the inevitable unexplained quirks and builders problems that came with a new type. Fortunately they’d performed relatively well in the gunnery exercise, scoring hits on a towed target at upwards of 8000 yards. “Mon Commandant,” a Midshipman interrupted his pondering. “Wireless from fleet headquarters.” “Merci,” Palliere said, taking the offered message. He noted it was routine traffic and lit another cigarette before reading. The message contained orders for Montcalm to dock for a wholesale ammunition transfer, apparently a new type of armor-piercing round had been developed that greatly exceeded the current shell’s performance. It also included a transcript of Amiral Bettancourt’s recent speech at the Senate. He had denounced the nation’s steel industry as opportunists for attempting to pressure the Navy into building beyond its needs, but at the same time announced a service-funded expansion of navy shipbuilding capacity. A balanced approach, thought Palliere, shaking his head and thanking fate that he wasn’t required to walk such a political line.
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Post by cwemyss on Feb 9, 2019 21:17:31 GMT -6
Side note... it's really hard to come up with reasonable plot when NOTHING'S HAPPENING. Six months in and I've had a couple minor production delays, a lessening of tensions across the board and finally one research pop and one opportunity to grab a single prestige point (which I'm certain to burn later).
Question for those who have written an AAR... how far do you usually play ahead of what you've written? I don't want to get so far out that I forget what drove the decisions, but between wars hitting 'next turn' goes a lot faster than writing an entertaining chapter about basically nothing.
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Post by aeson on Feb 9, 2019 21:58:23 GMT -6
Question for those who have written an AAR... how far do you usually play ahead of what you've written? I don't want to get so far out that I forget what drove the decisions, but between wars hitting 'next turn' goes a lot faster than writing an entertaining chapter about basically nothing. When I wrote the two AARs I've done on this forum, I took notes on anything interesting that happened as I played the game, and when I felt that the notes that I'd taken amounted to enough to make a post I'd go write something up and post it. Usually this worked out to around two to five years of game time while at peace and a year or two of game time while at war, if I recall correctly, but my AAR style is less story-oriented than yours is.
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