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Post by Adseria on Apr 4, 2020 12:36:15 GMT -6
Not sure what combat reports they're talking about, since I literally don't have a single ship fitted with AA directors, but whatever.
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Post by rimbecano on Apr 4, 2020 13:07:49 GMT -6
View Attachment
You can tell a battle is taking place "at close quarters" when the enemy ship is literally going through your own.
Honestly, at this point, I'm just glad friendly fire isn't a thing
EDIT: Here we go again...
View Attachment The icons are somewhat bigger than the actual ships, which *can* actually collide in battle. Speaking of knife fights (though not quite as short ranged as yours), I found myself faced last night with a 15", 28kt German BC against my 12", 26kt BC, at a 3:2 tonnage discrepancy. He quite eagerly closed the range, which was exactly where I wanted him: my fire control was better, and close range let my 12"s punch through his somewhat better armor. He lost both forward turrets early, and one of his rears spent most of the battle disabled, so he only had one turret operating for most of the battle. I took only four hits from his main battery: he took 33, before I put a few fish into him. All this happened in a daylight, clear weather action. If the German captain survived, he's going to have quite a tough time at the court martial investigating the loss of his ship.
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Post by Adseria on Apr 4, 2020 17:36:35 GMT -6
Hmm, I wonder what they could possibly be...
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Post by Adseria on Apr 4, 2020 20:11:52 GMT -6
Particularly underhanded, considering there's currently a submarine ban in place.
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Post by Adseria on Apr 4, 2020 22:30:00 GMT -6
So, I got a message indicating that the stokers on Yorck were getting exhausted. I thought all my ships were either too badly damaged to get above cruise speed, or not ordered to go at full speed anyway. So I decided to investigate.
The big black arrow isn't just pointing out the Yorck; it's also showing how far she went (roughly) at full speed without my realising it.
I need to pay more attention...
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Post by wlbjork on Apr 5, 2020 8:27:14 GMT -6
You...have a coal powered ship in 1940?! One of the biggest reasons I switch to oil-fired is the 2-3kn loss of speed from long periods at high speed, though I must admit lighter engines is also a big boost.
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Post by Adseria on Apr 5, 2020 12:32:37 GMT -6
You...have a coal powered ship in 1940?! One of the biggest reasons I switch to oil-fired is the 2-3kn loss of speed from long periods at high speed, though I must admit lighter engines is also a big boost. Yes, I switch to oil as well. The problem is, replacing machinery is slow and expensive, so I don't really think it's worth it to make a few old armoured cruisers that little bit better. I think it's more efficient to wait, build new ships (which I have done:
) and upgrade the ships later, when the weight reduction will be bigger, and the payoff greater.
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Post by rob06waves2018 on Apr 5, 2020 16:51:58 GMT -6
"Sir, all turrets fore and aft are reporting only 10 rounds of 13" ammunition remaining!" "Damn your eyes man, that 7" battery has offended this mighty fleet and must be annihilated!"
"But sir, the guns are all destroyed!"
"So? They could yet use it as a base from which to launch waves of men with pointy sticks at our ships! Keep firing!"
(After the victorious battle, Admiral Scott of 1st Battle Cruiser Squadron was quietly removed and sent to a country estate in Northumberland where he lived for a further decade having made perfectly sure that none of the fireplaces were "a danger to the fleet")
PS: For interest, it actually took 44 12" and 13" hits, 41 6" and 7" hits and 11 3" hits before this battery was considered "destroyed". Not so much destroyed as smited from this earth by the wrath of an omnipotent god - the Royal Navy!
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Post by aeson on Apr 5, 2020 17:57:19 GMT -6
The problem is, replacing machinery is slow and expensive, so I don't really think it's worth it to make a few old armoured cruisers that little bit better. I think it's more efficient to wait, build new ships, and upgrade the ships later, when the weight reduction will be bigger, and the payoff greater. And the problem with waiting to upgrade ships is that the longer you wait, the less worthwhile it is to invest in them and the more likely it becomes that replacement is the better option; old battleships and cruisers, even if heavily upgraded, are never going to be more than adequate, and even if the total cost for an extensive reconstruction is lower than that of building a new ship the instantaneous cost is often about the same so the rebuilds tend not to fit into the budget much if any better than new ships do.
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Post by dorn on Apr 6, 2020 0:20:04 GMT -6
I found that engine rebuilds are quite costly and there are mainly 2 reasons to doing so: 1. you are limited by treaty which means your old ships are still valuable assets 2. you rebuild machinery and decrease speed for something else (main turrets replacement, additional deck etc.) as if you decreased speed during refit the costs starts to be reasonable a) sometimes I did it if I built first generation of very fast battlecruisers about 30-31 knots. As fast battleships and battlecruisers (31 knots) start to appear the advantage of speed is limited so if a ship is well designed, it can be interesting to do such refit. But it is still doubtful b) old destroyers to refit them for ASW duty. One possibility is struck armament, the second one is machinery refit and decreasing speed quite a lot
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Post by wknehring on Apr 6, 2020 0:42:17 GMT -6
I found that engine rebuilds are quite costly and there are mainly 2 reasons to doing so: 1. you are limited by treaty which means your old ships are still valuable assets 2. you rebuild machinery and decrease speed for something else (main turrets replacement, additional deck etc.) as if you decreased speed during refit the costs starts to be reasonable a) sometimes I did it if I built first generation of very fast battlecruisers about 30-31 knots. As fast battleships and battlecruisers (31 knots) start to appear the advantage of speed is limited so if a ship is well designed, it can be interesting to do such refit. But it is still doubtful b) old destroyers to refit them for ASW duty. One possibility is struck armament, the second one is machinery refit and decreasing speed quite a lot
I would suggest, the first CVL-conversion, too. Most likely I take an older CA around 12-14k tons, strip off everything, replace the engines by oil-fired ones, bulge this thing for some TPS and extra tons and try to bring this thing up to 21-22 knots in total. Than every space is used for planes and some tiny boom sticks and AA-Dakka.
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Post by millsian on Apr 6, 2020 10:38:17 GMT -6
so I sink 6 x Italian TR and 2 x DD - losing only one of my DD in process
and Italy wins the battle !!!!!!!
and whats worse says I failed to achieve my objective of sinking 6 x TR :-(
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Post by zardoz on Apr 6, 2020 11:54:09 GMT -6
I play as usual Germany.
It is about 1906 or so and the situation with Japan escalates to yellow. To avoid a surprise (as in the past games) I begin mobilisation partially and send some ships to NEA. I am quite sure that I will be prepared for a war in some month. I begin building 4 6 inch batteries to have a nice suprise for the Japanes if they try to attack my ships in Kiatschou. I also begin expanding the harbor
However, I am again suprised by the yellow danger and the Japanes invade Kiatschou just a month before I have 4-6 Bs and other units there declaring war in this practical way. A month later I am there in full strength and win the first battle by sinking a CA and almost sinking another one. I have more battleship in NEA than Japan.
Plopp .... a new message in the next month . Japan has defeated my troops in Kiatschou.
They have again sacked me .... .
OK , I will take bitter revenge and from RL perspective the outcome is not weird. It is in effect VERY RL. But I was VERY convinced that game mechanic should have been on my side .... . Normally, the invasion should have been defeated.
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Post by rimbecano on Apr 6, 2020 19:50:02 GMT -6
And the problem with waiting to upgrade ships is that the longer you wait, the less worthwhile it is to invest in them and the more likely it becomes that replacement is the better option; old battleships and cruisers, even if heavily upgraded, are never going to be more than adequate, and even if the total cost for an extensive reconstruction is lower than that of building a new ship the instantaneous cost is often about the same so the rebuilds tend not to fit into the budget much if any better than new ships do.
[/quote] As for instantaneous cost, it depends on how much of a nest egg you've built up. Playing as the US, I generally have the spare funds to operate 1 or 2 million in the red for several years at the point in the game that I'm building carriers, so the lower total cost and faster completion are attractive when considering a capital ship to CV conversion. But updating the engines for a same-type refit is a waste of money: when my capital ships hit 20 years old, they either get scrapped, converted to carriers, or, if between 16 and ~20 kton, get converted to a large seaplane cruiser role: lop off a turret and/or downgrade to 8" guns, add storage for 20-ish seaplanes, and evaluate whether to upgrade the engines (my most recent CAV did not receive an upgrade).
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Post by rimbecano on Apr 7, 2020 1:33:59 GMT -6
Me: *notices the Japanese have a very nasty looking class of 16kton, 30kt+, 10" heavy cruisers, and my existing heavy cruisers are more 8/9" CLs than actual CAs. Me: *designs a 16kton, 30kt+, 2x3 AB, 10" heavy cruiser with plenty of weight to spare, ups it to 12" guns. Me: *frets about budget for procuring these cruisers, given the number of CAs Japan built while I was beating the snot out of Germany. President: "Build me four battleships! 'Murica!". Me: "Yes sir! 'Murica!" President: *hands me budget for one unit of the BB class I've got building. Me: "Crap, I can't build 4 BBs with this, and recovering from the budget cuts after the last war wiped out my reserve funds". Me: "Wait a minute, the game classifies my new CA as a BC." Me: *orders 4 heavy cruisers, tells the president they're "midget battlecruisers". 'Murica! Me: Considers renaming the class from "Seattle" to "Ticonderoga", in honor of the real life DDG-47 CG-1.
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