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Post by ramjb on May 22, 2019 4:04:31 GMT -6
Medium bombers are far more expensive to operate than Flying Boats, so if you just want scouts,specially if you need A LOT of them, you better go flying boats and let them do the scouting. Because paying the extra luxury toll for having a med bomber only to have it doing recce instead of dropping bombs is like taking dollar bills and use them as zippos. I strongly suspect your 1 year fighter didn't have "speed" as the #1 priority . Either that or your designers did a pisspoor job at fullfitting your requests. At any rate there was a brief period in the late 30s where bombers actually got to be faster than most of their contemporary fighters, because bombers went to monoplane configuration before fighters did. And biplanes aren't what you'd call fast .
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Post by cogsandspigots on May 22, 2019 6:07:50 GMT -6
Um... excuse me Russia... but you should've scrapped that about 50 years ago.
"Da, comrade, is stronk battleship, built of stalinium armour with great many shells guided by hand of Stalin himself!" Too bad it didn’t manage to land a single main battery hit at all and had its belt pierced about a dozen times by 8” heavy cruiser guns. It’s not all bad though, the single submerged torpedo tube gunner should get an Order of the Red Banner for managing to land a hit on the first shot. Luckily, my cruisers have TDS 2, so it wasn’t a fatal shot.
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Post by dorn on May 22, 2019 8:51:14 GMT -6
Medium bombers are far more expensive to operate than Flying Boats, so if you just want scouts,specially if you need A LOT of them, you better go flying boats and let them do the scouting. Because paying the extra luxury toll for having a med bomber only to have it doing recce instead of dropping bombs is like taking dollar bills and use them as zippos. I strongly suspect your 1 year fighter didn't have "speed" as the #1 priority . Either that or your designers did a pisspoor job at fullfitting your requests. At any rate there was a brief period in the late 30s where bombers actually got to be faster than most of their contemporary fighters, because bombers went to monoplane configuration before fighters did. And biplanes aren't what you'd call fast . If I look at maintenance costs there is no difference between flying boat and medium bomber. You are right, I remember reading that british focus on fast bombers pre-war as speed is best defence.
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Post by Adseria on May 22, 2019 9:18:00 GMT -6
Medium bombers are far more expensive to operate than Flying Boats, so if you just want scouts,specially if you need A LOT of them, you better go flying boats and let them do the scouting. Because paying the extra luxury toll for having a med bomber only to have it doing recce instead of dropping bombs is like taking dollar bills and use them as zippos. I strongly suspect your 1 year fighter didn't have "speed" as the #1 priority . Either that or your designers did a pisspoor job at fullfitting your requests. At any rate there was a brief period in the late 30s where bombers actually got to be faster than most of their contemporary fighters, because bombers went to monoplane configuration before fighters did. And biplanes aren't what you'd call fast . If I look at maintenance costs there is no difference between flying boat and medium bomber. You are right, I remember reading that british focus on fast bombers pre-war as speed is best defence. As I recall, the English Electric Canberra (the 1st British jet bomber, and 1st jet bomber in the world) had no gun armament whatsoever, and relied purely on it's speed and high flight ceiling to avoid enemy interceptors.
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Post by Procopius on May 22, 2019 9:20:06 GMT -6
As I recall, the English Electric Canberra (the 1st British jet bomber, and 1st jet bomber in the world) had no gun armament whatsoever, and relied purely on it's speed and high flight ceiling to avoid enemy interceptors. Correct, neither did the bomber versions of the Mosquito.
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Post by amwhere on May 22, 2019 21:28:46 GMT -6
From the log - "BB Kawachi identifies TR as BC Bayan-class". Guys, I can understand misidentifying a BC as a BB or CA.... but a Transport!?!? People need to wipe off their binoculars, me thinks.
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Post by Noname117 on May 22, 2019 21:54:35 GMT -6
I had a night engagement recently as Austria Hungary where 1 of my BBs and 2 of my BCs pumped 72 14" and 15" shell hits into a single Italian BC in 7 minutes (at which point it started sinking).
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Post by ursamaior on May 23, 2019 0:14:40 GMT -6
As I recall, the English Electric Canberra (the 1st British jet bomber, and 1st jet bomber in the world) had no gun armament whatsoever, and relied purely on it's speed and high flight ceiling to avoid enemy interceptors. Correct, neither did the bomber versions of the Mosquito. Ar 234 jet bombers of 1944 beg to differ.
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Post by phyroks on May 23, 2019 1:29:53 GMT -6
Saw AI ship that was named funny, the battle had barely started and I was telling my friend about the ships name, before I could finish telling him one of the starting salvos score a hit (dd's vs dd's) Attachments:
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Post by Adseria on May 23, 2019 3:23:14 GMT -6
From the log - "BB Kawachi identifies TR as BC Bayan-class". Guys, I can understand misidentifying a BC as a BB or CA.... but a Transport!?!? People need to wipe off their binoculars, me thinks. To be fair, when you're on a battleship, all ships look unarmed!
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Post by Adseria on May 23, 2019 3:25:22 GMT -6
Correct, neither did the bomber versions of the Mosquito. Ar 234 jet bombers of 1944 beg to differ. I don't see why; it's pretty much the exact same thing.
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Post by ursamaior on May 23, 2019 4:55:28 GMT -6
Ar 234 jet bombers of 1944 beg to differ. I don't see why; it's pretty much the exact same thing. Yep but thr fritz plane flew some 3 yrs earlier.
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Post by Adseria on May 23, 2019 5:41:03 GMT -6
I don't see why; it's pretty much the exact same thing. Yep but thr fritz plane flew some 3 yrs earlier. Right, sorry, my mistake.
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Post by ramjb on May 23, 2019 5:45:42 GMT -6
From the log - "BB Kawachi identifies TR as BC Bayan-class". Guys, I can understand misidentifying a BC as a BB or CA.... but a Transport!?!? People need to wipe off their binoculars, me thinks. Japanese scouts identified an oiler as a Fleet Carrier during the battle of the Coral Sea. Which led to 1/3 of the Kido Butai nuking it and the poor destroyer that was escorting it. Talk about overkill. There were many other cases where gross misidentification was going on in both World Wars. Eyes see things in a weird way when the person who owns them is under serious stress, you know...Specially so if bad visibility is at play.
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Post by Adseria on May 23, 2019 7:13:27 GMT -6
From the log - "BB Kawachi identifies TR as BC Bayan-class". Guys, I can understand misidentifying a BC as a BB or CA.... but a Transport!?!? People need to wipe off their binoculars, me thinks. Japanese scouts identified an oiler as a Fleet Carrier during the battle of the Coral Sea. Which led to 1/3 of the Kido Butai nuking it and the poor destroyer that was escorting it. Talk about overkill. There were many other cases where gross misidentification was going on in both World Wars. Eyes see things in a weird way when the person who owns them is under serious stress, you know...Specially so if bad visibility is at play. Think about it. A fleet oiler has a large, mostly flat deck with pipes running over it, a tower near the middle, another at the stern and cranes for pipes and other equipment at the sides. From an aircraft, several thousand feet up (to avoid flak), the pipes could easily be mistaken for lines painted on a flight deck, and, with the right lighting, the midships tower could look like it's offset to one side while the stern tower could be hard to make out. And the cranes could easily be mistaken for flag hoists.
And don't forget; they were sent in that direction to look for carriers, and they were expecting to see carriers. Never underestimate the human tendency to see what they want to see. The scouts' reports claimed that the oiler and destroyer were "1 carrier, 1 cruiser and 3 destroyers." I'd guess that they thought Neosho was the carrier, Sims was a cruiser, and then they saw sea foam or clouds which they mistook as the wakes of 3 more ships.
Incidentally, Ram, your statement about "1/3 of the Kido Butai" nuking Neosho and Sims was technically incorrect. Yes, Shokaku and Zuikaku were at Coral Sea, and yes, those 2 ships did make up a third of the Kido Butai's carriers (not going into detail about escorts), but they only launched 78 planes of a total of 127, and, of those, only the 36 dive bombers attacked (the fighters and torpedo bombers having aborted after the realisation of the scouts' mistakes). Oh, and Neosho wasn't "nuked" either; she was seriously damaged, but stayed afloat and drifting for over 2 days, and had to be scuttled by the destroyer that rescued the survivors.
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