How to deploy into cruising formation?

[Deleted]

I was just messing about in a campaign save file, activating some ships and deploying them. Previously when deploying 2 or more divisions of capital ships they form a straight line right at scenario start, as the battle line formation I believe.

But, once in a blue moon the cruising formation appears, where divisions stack each other side by side:
Attachment Deleted

This is a very pleasant surprise, for I believe it's more historically accurate as with no enemy contact this formation was used for cruising, and when contact is made they'd switch to the battle line. It also seems much much better in SAI, since a wider front is way more efficient at searching the enemy. Upon contact the AI switches to line by itself, and after the battle it returns to cruising formation, again by itself. All very good.

However. I've checked my orders for the divisions, and can tell no difference between when they deploy into battle line vs. the cruising formation... It's always first division independent, 2nd and 3rd core etc etc. So is this something the game engine randomly chooses, or have I missed a setting somewhere?

[randomizer]

It was fundamental in the Royal Navy of Horatio Nelson that "The order of sailing is the order of battle" but well before WW1 the Royal Navy of Steam and Iron knew it needed to approach the issue differently.

Sailing the fleet in parallel columns of divisions provided the maximum flexibility in action and can be seen even back to the regime of Sir George Tryon in the 1890's.  Getting the fleet from columns of divisions (cruising formation) to line ahead (battle formation) was very straightforward as each column was led by a divisional admiral.  Turn the flagships together and the remaining ships in succession and instant battle line.  You could also deploy on either flank depending on the situation.

By the time WW1 rolled around, cruising formation was doctrinal in the RN and it provided the advantages of concentration and simplified the screening and scouting problem.  The German's stuck with cruising in battle formation and had dreadnoughts repeatedly torpedoed by ambushing British submarines when they sortied into the North Sea.  There does not appear to be any correlation between the advent of the locomotive torpedo and adapting a special cruising formation but the latter, in addition to the advantages offered regarding concentration and command/control also served to make the fleet less vulnerable to torpedo attack.  Recall if you will that the RN had estimated that the PH of a salvo of torpedoes against a battle line could be as high as .40 and this is borne out in the different experiences of both battlefleets operating in the face of enemy submarines.  It's probably significant that sometime after Jutland, High Seas Fleet Commander Adm Scheer adopted the British style of cruising formation in columns of divisions.  This happens in SAI across the campaign or in late-war custom scenarios.

In port you may reorganize your force before running a scenario turn using the "Move UP" function.  The top battleship Division in any Force will always be the lead division (the lead ship of that division being the Guide of the Fleet as it was known in the signalling world).  The remaining Core Divisions will station themselves in column at intervals to starboard of the Lead Division.  Battleship divisions with an Independent role will generally try to remain within visual distance of the Guide of the Fleet and this was the role intended for the faster 5th Battle Squadron when it sailed with the Battle Fleet.

At Jutland Jellicoe's Iron Duke was ninth from the Guide of the Fleet; Sir Martyn Jerram's King George V, flagship of the 2nd Battle Squadron.  The lead ship on the starboard division was HMS Marlborough, flagship of Sir Cecil Burney's 1st Battle Squadron, which would have been Guide of the Fleet had deployment been to Starboard rather than Port.  

Note that British battlecruiser divisions do not conform to this doctrine in the game and BC divisions with Core roles will follow their lead BC division in line ahead.

In action, changing course of the Lead will result in the following divisions manoeuvring into a single line ahead behind the Guide, just as what Jellicoe did at Jutland with the signal "Equal Speed C(harlie) L(ondon), which translated meant essentially "All division flagships turn together 90 degrees to Port with remaining ships turning in secession behind their division leaders following the Port Guide of the Fleet on a course of SE by E in a single line ahead".

This is referred to in the books as Deployment to Port and takes about 15-minutes in the game as in the event.  In the game it can only be done in contact with the enemy unless you do it manually at Rear Admiral or Captain difficulty.

In action you may change the lead flagship once per scenario by right-clicking on the Force flag and selecting the Change Force Flagship option.

So it's not random, is working as intended and has scope for Player customized input during the planning process and to a lesser extent during a scenario.

[Deleted]

Randomizer,
I did some testing with the game and, especially editor.exe. It appears the core point is specified by the nation number of the core division's lead ship.

i.e.,

Year 1916 and before
Division 1: Whatever BB; Independent. Division 2: Bayern, Queen Elizabeth. Core point at stern.
Division 1: Whatever BB; Independent. Division 2: Queen Elizabeth, Bayern. Core point at starboard.

Year 1917 and later
Division 1: Whatever BB; Independent. Division 2: Bayern, Queen Elizabeth. Core point at starboard.
Division 1: Whatever BB; Independent. Division 2: Queen Elizabeth, Bayern. Core point at starboard.

Then I open up Bayern.sdf and change Nation=0 to Nation=3.
Now in all four examples Division 2's core point is at starboard.

Without doubt the game is working fully correctly iaw what you said. My question is if there's any way to edit this value. My modding frenzy kicked in and searched the game up and down without finding anything. The BInLine and CAInLine value in the qbf files appears to be no relevance. The value clearly is linked to the Nation#, however no entry was found in Nations.dat... I assume it's defined in the code only?

[randomizer]

Honestly I am not sure although I expect that you're correct but FW will need to weigh in here regarding the specifics. Sorry.

[Deleted]

OK, thanks still Randomizer. I think I can hear the sea and steam turbines humming reading your prev post!

P.S. Why do you reckon the BC/CL divisions do not adopt this formation? I think it helps scouting/screening tremendously for them as well?

[Fredrik W]

The German High Seas Fleet did not adopt the British style cruising formation until 1917, before that they cruised in a single line. That is simulated in the game and that is what you are seeing.

[randomizer]

P.S. Why do you reckon the BC/CL divisions do not adopt this formation? I think it helps scouting/screening tremendously for them as well?

Good question and while I cannot offer any documented doctrinal justifications I think that there are some quite suitable reasons and am willing to speculate.

First off the British Battle Fleet was BIG with 29 capital ships (21-dreadnought battleships and eight-pre dreadnoughts in August 1914) divided into four battle squadrons and some seven divisions whereas there were only six battlecruisers in home waters.  The two divisions of battle cruisers made for a compact force that was easy (in theory) to command and concentrate.  Later there would be no more than 10-battle cruisers in three divisions plus flagship HMS Lion so divisions in line ahead coupled with a cruising speed several knots faster than the Battle Fleet was thought to provide enough protection from ambushing submarines.

By the time of Jutland there were still 29-battleships but now all were dreadnoughts and the semi-independent 5th Battle Squadron had a commission to act as a fast division to go where the action was.  The remaining 24-battleships in six divisions (plus later the 4-5 American battleships of the 6th Battle Squadron in a single division) sailed in cruising formation ready to adopt line ahead in action.

Although Sir John Fisher, with his vivid biblical imagery referred to the battle cruiser as his "New Testament" ships (Dreadnought being the prototype "Old Testament" ship), the RN was not entirely sure how to use them in war.  Contrary to some sources, most operational admirals knew very well that Fisher's "Speed is Armour" dictum was rubbish and vast sums had been spent on capital ships that produced a distinctly asymmetric, potentially unsatisfactory combat situations and would be very vulnerable in action with their own kind.  A warship that can hit very hard but lacks defences should be cheap and expendable (as the modern missile boat) or rendered invulnerable by stealth (as the modern SSBN).  The concept behind the battle cruiser was sound so long as nobody else had similar ships and this was amply demonstrated by VAdm Sturdee at the Falkland Islands.  HMS Inflexible and Invincible wiped out von Spee's armoured cruisers merely by expending ammunition and even their critically weak armour kept out the German's 20 cm shells exactly as designed.  But in a world were the other side had battle cruisers the ability to hit without being effectively hit in return vanished and coupled with unsound ammunition handling procedures wedded to a cult where the big-guns' rate of fire trumped safety and accuracy, disaster was waiting in the wings as demonstrated on the afternoon of 31 May 1916.

As soon as Germany started building battle cruisers (actually designated Large Cruisers in German), the Admiralty knew that the game was up and the three Invincible's were already considered obsolescent when hostilities commenced although they were less than eight-years old.  Two Invincible's were sent to the South Atlantic after Spee but the faster, better armoured HMS Princess Royal by herself was considered adequate to take on von Spee's cruisers should they reach the North Atlantic and she was sent unescorted to Halifax, Nova Scotia to do just that.

Had the War not commenced in 1914, the Admiralty planned to disband the Battlecruiser Fleet at the end of Beattie's command tenure in the spring of 1915.  The ships themselves would be paired with light-cruiser squadrons as support for the latter, whose principle role was dispersed scouting.  A pair of BC's was considered enough to push the scouting cruisers through to get the information required on the enemy's strength, course, speed and disposition.  We see a sample of how this might have worked at the Second Battle of the Helgoland Bight in 1917.  Repulse and Renown acting as an independent BC division supporting the Harwich Force allowed Commodore Tyrwhitt's CL's to push through the German screening forces.  When a division of Koenig Class BB's arrived the two BC's used their speed and firepower to cover the British withdrawal from a superior although slower force.

Although Beattie had continually objected at being closely tied to Jellicoe's Battlefleet, when he became Commander and Chief Grand Fleet he kept his former command on a very short leash when at sea.

So the aim of the compact cruising formation was actually incompatible for battle cruisers and light cruisers, both of which had different roles that were more suitable to dispersion instead of concentration while their higher cruising speed should serve to foil most opportunities for a submarine ambush.

You can use the Editor to write scenarios that place a British CL squadron (typically four-ships) supported by a pair of BC's and a division of DD's against a German Scouting Group (typically four-CL's plus a torpedo boat flotilla).  The HSF' Scouting Group 1, never more than five-large cruisers could only be at one place at any one time whereas the Royal Navy had four CL squadrons each of which might have operated independently supported by their own pair of BC's.  In SAI terms, each of the British CL/BC squadrons would function as independent forces providing enormous scouting flexibility and defensive firepower.

That's my $0.02 CAD.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2014 12:42:52 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

The German High Seas Fleet did not adopt the British style cruising formation until 1917, before that they cruised in a single line. That is simulated in the game and that is what you are seeing.

Hi Fredrik, say I wanna ask the BC squadrons to adopt this formation, complete those 'reach with 8 big ship' objectives and hunt for some enemy DDs afterwards. Is it remotely possible for me to mod anything here to achieve that? Nothing historical ofc, just wanna try it out.

[Fredrik W]

Sorry, it is hardcoded so British BB:s and German after 1916 will automatically assume cruising formation in columns.

[randomizer]

Jun 23, 2014 14:10:11 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

Sorry, it is hardcoded so British BB:s and German after 1916 will automatically assume cruising formation in columns.

You also see this in SAI-RJW for the British.  As noted in my post above it is doctrinally sound and relates to command and control issues rather than anti-torpedo defence.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2014 13:55:10 GMT -6 randomizer said:

....

So the aim of the compact cruising formation was actually incompatible for battle cruisers and light cruisers, both of which had different roles that were more suitable to dispersion instead of concentration while their higher cruising speed should serve to foil most opportunities for a submarine ambush.

You can use the Editor to write scenarios that place a British CL squadron (typically four-ships) supported by a pair of BC's and a division of DD's against a German Scouting Group (typically four-CL's plus a torpedo boat flotilla).  The HSF' Scouting Group 1, never more than five-large cruisers could only be at one place at any one time whereas the Royal Navy had four CL squadrons each of which might have operated independently supported by their own pair of BC's.  In SAI terms, each of the British CL/BC squadrons would function as independent forces providing enormous scouting flexibility and defensive firepower.

That's my $0.02 CAD.

That makes total sense to me. It's demonstrated pretty well in SAI imo that you can use 2-4 BCs with CLs and DDs to dominate an enemy light force. The campaign stage I'm at the BCs are much more useful for this role than the huge port laying BB fleet.
However I think we inevitably come to game limitations, while the real navy could operate multiple BC+CL light forces towards different directions at the same time for scouting, the player usually only handles one task force. Hence where my idea spawn from. Nevertheless, thanks very much for yet another valuable peek into the naval history. As a flight simming geek previously, this is all very amazing, different yet can somehow be related. Apparently before aviation became the name of the game there's this great battle at sea and it's not any less complex.

Jun 23, 2014 14:10:11 GMT -6 Fredrik W said:

Sorry, it is hardcoded so British BB:s and German after 1916 will automatically assume cruising formation in columns.

Thanks Fredrik. Tis solves all the problem, been chasin' a ghost indeed. I rest in peace!...

[randomizer]

However I think we inevitably come to game limitations, while the real navy could operate multiple BC+CL light forces towards different directions at the same time for scouting, the player usually only handles one task force.

This is certainly accurate but please remember that the British never did decentralize the Battle Cruiser Force during the course of the war and retained the semi-independent BCF as commanded by VAdm Beattie throughout.  Thanks to Winston Churchill when he was First Lord of the Admiralty he designated it the Battle Cruiser Fleet as a sop to his good buds David Beattie but the reality was that the BCF was a sub-unit of the Grand Fleet regardless what it was called and Admiral Jellicoe generally tried to ensure that when it was at sea, a senior Battle Fleet squadron commander was on hand to have command the operation.  This happened at Scarborough where VAdm Warrander commanded and the Dogger Bank where VAdm Bradford's 3rd BS (consisting of the King Edward VII Class pre-dreadnoughts) was at sea although not present for the action; both were senior to Beattie and would have held overall command until Jellicoe arrived. Later the Battle Cruiser Fleet would become the Battle Cruiser Force and when Beattie went to command the Grand Fleet he had his good friend VAdm William Pakenham ("Old Packs") placed in command of the BCF, the latter was generally kept close to a battle squadron whenever it sailed on operations.  The operation that led to the action at 2nd Helgoland in 1917 was a rare exception.

As soon as the Queen Elizabeth Class fast battleships (to become the 5th Battle Squadron in late 1915) begin to join the Fleet, Beattie lobbied hard to get them permanently attached to his BCF. Ironically he handled this powerful force badly at Jutland and when he became CinC Grand Fleet he took Queen Elizabeth from the squadron for his Fleet flagship (reducing the strength of 5BS by 20%) while refusing to give the remaining fast battleships of 5BS to VAdm Pakenham's BCF.

Between 19 August 1916 and 23 April 1918 the entire Grand Fleet was never at sea and capital ships seldom ventured south of about N56 degrees.  There were sorties and patrols by individual battle squadrons and no doubt elements of the BCF participated in these but of course, no significant surface actions resulted.

Major doctrinal changes in the course of any war tend to be rare for any arm of service, particularly when initial doctrine is generally effective and amendable to incremental improvements through lessons learned in operations.  I submit there is ample evidence for this being the case for the Royal Navy in the North Sea, 1914-18.