Are large BBs and BCs worth it.

[southkraut]

AFAIK you can still end up with lots of BCs if you go for all-forward armament, since the game will classify anything with fewer than three turrets as a BC rather than as a BB.

It's 1950 now and I stuck to my guns, which are 90000 ton 2x4x20in all-forward BCs, and as it turns out they're quite good at hunting down carrier groups. I imagine 16inch guns on BBs or BCs half the mass would've done just as well. Either way, let me add to the chorus here: Big ships with big guns remain important even with air power around.

[cogsandspigots]

I previously believed that any BB more than 45k tons was a waste of money. However, after having a pair of 63k ton “Montanoids” built as an experiment be absolutely instrumental to victory in literally the first battle they were in, I have since changed my sentiment.

Large BBs are worth it *IF* you can afford to have them in your budget without seriously compromising in your cruiser, carrier, or destroyer force.

[southkraut]

Good point there; my campaign does seriously struggle under the shortage of small ships. The big ships are regularly out of commision because of destroyer and submarine attacks that would have been perfectly preventable, had all lesser ships not been sent off to foreign stations or trade protection because the budget was already at its limits. Airstrikes would be less dangerous with more small ship cover, too. It works as is, but barely, and taking a more moderate approach is very likely wiser.

[dorn]

I am in late 30s, AI designs are around 40000 tons. I went opposite and my last class of 7 battleships build in 3 years went to 35000 tons. They have 2x4x16 guns, TDS lvl 4 and reasonable protection against their guns, 27 knots.

They are quite equal to AI designs and because of them I have much more modern battleship fleet than USA as having 12 modern battleships, 4 older but refited to 3.5" deck, 15" turrets armour, 4x2x15" guns, 23 knots on 27600k displacement, and 6 old 15" guns with weaker armour.

Even USA had more vintage battleships.

With UK trait of hidden flaws it is much more sence build this.

[warlock]

Well all I can say is I am at 1953 with Italy, completely dominating the game with like 96 prestiege and none of my BB/BCs are over 40,000 tons and in fact I think the largest is in 35,000-36,000 tons range and they are holding their own against enemy BB/BCs just fine. That being said, no, I don't think BB/BCs in the 60,000 ton range are worth it. As others have mentioned your much better off building CVs.

As for CVs, mine tend to be smaller in size as well, around 24,000-25,000 tons and armored to be around 4 inch belts, 2 inch decks and max torpedo protection. They carry about 64-66 aircraft each and relatively cheap to produce. What I don't know is how durable they are because I have the Mediterranean under complete air superiority from land based airfields that pretty much shoot down any enemy aircraft launched from enemy CVs prior to their strikes reaching the vicinity of my ships. I have ran into the AI building some rather large 45,000 ton CVs that are heavily armored but they only carry about 10 more planes than mine and have to cost twice as much and I have no issues sinking them. Still if I didn't have so much overwhelming air superiority in the area I can't help but wonder if that extra armor would translate into an overwhelming advantage or not.

[wknehring]

What I can say for my first game with the Kriegsmarine (currently in 1942 in my 2nd war against GB and now they lose every battle in the German bight, because I have Scharnhorst and Gneisenau)- you need some big boys to tank damage to have time for a 2nd airstrike, or maybe a 3rd. Than even CVL are OKish (both battles fought in the North Sea in range of my landbased planes, I sunk 2 capital ships in the last quarter of the battle with airstrikes, while my 2 BBs were pummeled a lot- both ships in both battle tanked a minimum of 30 16" shells)
The German Bight or in warlock´s case the Mediterranian are bad examples, because there is no chance to break the airsuperiority for your AI-oponent. But in an open battle with both sides have CV and BB, the side without BB will have a big disadvantage. My first war against GB was a disaster, because I was blockaded and my largest units were CL and 3 CVL (with a group of 12 TB and 6F each)- without some big boys you have no chance to break that blockade.

I would say you need a good mix consisting of tanks (BBs), fast CV-defenders (CA or BC), Dp gun-escorts (CL/CL-AA) and a big DD-Screen. Some surface raiders for diversion and a good pack of subs for some basic VP-income and dealing shortcuts for your oponent.