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Post by alkiap on May 21, 2019 15:00:12 GMT -6
Looking at the cruisers, Canada doesn't seem too good in my opinion. It's neither fish nor fowl: can't fight other CAs due to 6" guns, too expensive and too slow for a trade protection (for which your CLs look quite good, by the way)
I would work on something with 9" guns and more turret armor; 2 inches are very vulnerable and expose you to flash fires, especially early game
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Post by griffin01 on May 21, 2019 15:09:26 GMT -6
I suppose i subscribe to much to the "All big gun" desgin philosophy. Tertiarys are the first things to go on my designs. Do they actuall any value beyond just more guns to throw at the bad guys? They’re useful during 3 periods of time: 1. Very beginning of the game: fire control is so bad and your guns so inaccurate, you need as much steel flying towards your enemy as possible 2. Very middle of the game: these flying things are starting to get annoying, some high angle 3” guns should be able to swat them down 3. Very late end of the game: automatic 3” aa guns baby I don't really understand what else exactly you want to get out of your ships. Isn't the game literally about having more guns to throw at enemies? Overall, I believe the tertiary guns are a no-brainer. They cost next to nil displacement, provide anti-DD firepower and are prime candidates for high angle mounts. Their importance is even greater if you decide to go for a heavier secondary battery. In fact, I wish we could actually provide at least splinter protection to them. |
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Post by owe166 on May 22, 2019 23:45:50 GMT -6
They’re useful during 3 periods of time: 1. Very beginning of the game: fire control is so bad and your guns so inaccurate, you need as much steel flying towards your enemy as possible 2. Very middle of the game: these flying things are starting to get annoying, some high angle 3” guns should be able to swat them down 3. Very late end of the game: automatic 3” aa guns baby I don't really understand what else exactly you want to get out of your ships. Isn't the game literally about having more guns to throw at enemies? Overall, I believe the tertiary guns are a no-brainer. They cost next to nil displacement, provide anti-DD firepower and are prime candidates for high angle mounts. Their importance is even greater if you decide to go for a heavier secondary battery. In fact, I wish we could actually provide at least splinter protection to them. I suppose your right. Im still working into what kind of ships i want to design and build. My next few BBs will start adding teritarys in i think. some 3 or 4 inch guns |
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Post by bcoopactual on May 23, 2019 7:21:39 GMT -6
In RtW1, I would use tertiaries on my pre-dreadnoughts. As griffin01 alluded to, heavier secondary guns (7 inch or greater) will usually prioritize larger targets. Depending on the circumstances the 5 and 6 inch gun secondaries could target the enemy's larger ships as well so to protect against DD it's good to have that tertiary battery. For dreadnoughts, I would lose the tertiary battery and spend that weight on something else. Intending to fight at longer ranges (the point of shipping more than four main caliber guns) I would reduce the secondary battery to 4 or 5 inch guns depending on the generation of dreadnought to protect against DD. So, owe166 , I don't think you are wrong about removing the tertiaries if you want. You just have to have a plan for DD that get past your cruisers. cogsandspigots pointed out that in RTW2, tertiaries make a comeback as anti-aircraft guns. At least until you have 4 or 5 inch DP guns and then again, they become superfluous. Until at the very end like he mentioned you can swap in 3 inch autoloaded AA for medium caliber guns as the USN did immediately post war. |
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Post by splashell on May 23, 2019 9:04:15 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering, deck armor being a massive weight addition. In the 1900 start, is it necessary to put deck armor on, for example CL's at all? I mean gun ranges are close and there's no chance of plunging fire. I'm just wondering if there is some function for deck armor then, like protecting from splinters, or could I just get away leaving early cruisers complete without it?
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Post by marauder on May 23, 2019 9:26:32 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering, deck armor being a massive weight addition. In the 1900 start, is it necessary to put deck armor on, for example CL's at all? I mean gun ranges are close and there's no chance of plunging fire. I'm just wondering if there is some function for deck armor then, like protecting from splinters, or could I just get away leaving early cruisers complete without it? Skimping on deck armour on your light cruiser designs is tempting, but can be dangerous, especially if the design in question relies on speed for survival.
You're correct in the assumption that deck armour will give protection from splinters. 2" and up is completely impenetrable for splinters, while 1.5" and 1" will sometimes let through splinters that can damage/destroy machinery among other things.
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Post by splashell on May 23, 2019 11:14:03 GMT -6
Yeah, early on it's hard to get past 22kt CLs which would be nice (but possible without the deck armor), as I tend to pack them full of 5" guns but notice the AI some times builds even 24kt CLs (albeit very lightly armed and/or armored). Trial and error (or success) I guess... Those first CLs expected shelf life isn't that long as armor/engine advances can push to 25kt relatively soon anyway for a new design and sanity of replacing machinery is a question mark, relative to the cost vs building a completely new design.
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Post by ramjb on May 23, 2019 11:30:06 GMT -6
Key tech here is turbines, guys. Once you hit that one you can begin thinking about 25+ knot cruisers.
Anytime before that, the weight and space the triple expansion machinery demands makes it completely not worth it.
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Post by dorn on May 23, 2019 11:56:14 GMT -6
I was kind of wondering, deck armor being a massive weight addition. In the 1900 start, is it necessary to put deck armor on, for example CL's at all? I mean gun ranges are close and there's no chance of plunging fire. I'm just wondering if there is some function for deck armor then, like protecting from splinters, or could I just get away leaving early cruisers complete without it?
I sometimes have cruisers without deck armour - small cruisers up to 2500 tons. In RTW it could be interesting even at start of 20s to have such cruiser and devote all tonnage to firepower. But in RTW2 I would be have at least 1" deck armour as soon as dive bombers are common.
These type of cruiser are usually good especially for night engagement where all ships could be lost easily as they are quite cheap (usually about 7-9M) and expendable.
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Post by augustvonthomsen on May 23, 2019 12:52:50 GMT -6
As far as DP AA guns would you say 3" or 4" guns are better? I would guess the 3" guns would have a higher rate of fire, which is important for AA work. But I would also guess that 4" guns would have longer range. Obviously 4" guns would do more damage upon a hit, but considering that aircraft aren't particularly sturdy compared to ground vehicles I can't imagine that it would make much difference whether your torpedo bomber is hit by (doing the metric conversions) a 76.2mm HE shell or a 101.6mm HE shell.
So for anyone who has gotten far enough in the game for heavy AA to play a significant role, have you noticed one type of gun being particularly more effective than the other?
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Post by JagdFlanker on May 23, 2019 16:05:34 GMT -6
i never put deck armour on my CLs and very rarely have a problem with it - although currently in RtW2 you have no choice since you can't save the design unless you have a minimum on 1" deck armour here's a really old pic of one of my start game CLs - i must have been playing A-H since it's short range, but if i'm playing any other country i knock it down to 24kts and give it med range
it CRUSHES all other CLs, and 3 can sometimes gang up on a CA
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snwh
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Post by snwh on May 23, 2019 17:35:26 GMT -6
If you do decide to upgrade your turrets, remember that turrets above 6" can flashfire, destroying your whole ship, and thus armor them appropriately. At least I think its 6" its been a long time since I learned that. Thats why I don't stick anything larger than six inchers as secondaries, it saves a lot of weight, cause I dont need to armor them more than 2"
No, you don't need full deck armor on your CL's. a lot of time I'll skimp quite a bit on mine, with 1" deck armor and 0 deck extended. I tend to keep to this until I get light cruiser armor schemes, and AON, where I'll switch to 2" Its a sorta risk reward thing, but they seem to do fine anyways. I'd say it has something to do with most f the guns shooting at them, having a pretty flat trajectory, but idk
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Post by aeson on May 23, 2019 18:43:48 GMT -6
If you do decide to upgrade your turrets, remember that turrets above 6" can flashfire, destroying your whole ship, and thus armor them appropriately. At least I think its 6" its been a long time since I learned that. Thats why I don't stick anything larger than six inchers as secondaries, it saves a lot of weight, cause I dont need to armor them more than 2 At least in Rule the Waves, the rule that only guns heavier than 6" could suffer flash fires was specific to secondary guns; 6" and lighter main battery guns were still susceptible to flash fires. I do not know if the rule has changed for Rule the Waves 2. |
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snwh
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Post by snwh on May 23, 2019 18:54:31 GMT -6
If you do decide to upgrade your turrets, remember that turrets above 6" can flashfire, destroying your whole ship, and thus armor them appropriately. At least I think its 6" its been a long time since I learned that. Thats why I don't stick anything larger than six inchers as secondaries, it saves a lot of weight, cause I dont need to armor them more than 2 At least in Rule the Waves, the rule that only guns heavier than 6" could suffer flash fires was specific to secondary guns; 6" and lighter main battery guns were still susceptible to flash fires. I do not know if the rule has changed for Rule the Waves 2. Oh? i din't know that, altho I should have, considering I've seen CL's and DD's flash fire before. I just didn't connect the dots. We all have something to learn here :3 |
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