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Post by hungaricus on May 22, 2019 9:14:37 GMT -6
Hello there! In my current (first) RTW2 AH campaing I am constantly up against a pair of nations. The first war was against france and russia and the second one against italy and france. I managed to win both but at a great cost. For some reason in a single month the french submarines managed to sing 1 BC 1 BB and a CVL and some other losses occured naturaly during battles. Can I somehow submarineproofing my ships against such attacks? I had plenty of ASW. So in round two I had 3:1 disadvantage in BC-s and 2:1 in BBs. I was naturally a bit nervous about the hole thing but in the first battle the french BB line was blown out from the water and in the second engagement was a night battle against the italians. They lost 3 BC-s and it was an absolute mess. Torpedoes left and right point blank salvos and not a single aircraft. Here is the result:  My luckiest ship ever at the end of the battle (that 4 torpedo detonated simultaneously):  And the ship design itself: (EDIT: its shows 0 in the rebuilding menu but its actually lvl 4 torpedo protection.)  I got 16 inch guns right at Q1 so I use them whenever I can. The ship had a minor refit in 39 for directors and after the current war it will get twin 5' secondary battery with a more sophisticated AA suit too. How should I improve it? Aside from make it bigger? What do you think about the torpedo mounths? I mean its armor is good enough for a BC? Should it be faster? Any tips or tricks? |
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Post by namuras on May 22, 2019 9:31:38 GMT -6
Not sure if torpedo defence helps with the random losses due to events, but it would certainly help during battle. Try to get either 2 or 4, since i believe that 1 and most def. 3 add too much weight for what they do.
Maybe drop the torpedoes for more secondaries? I don't know how much use you get out of them on BB / BC, but i know mine are rarely in range for to use those.
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Post by hungaricus on May 22, 2019 9:35:20 GMT -6
Hmmm for some reason if I check it in the rebuilding menu it shows 0. Actually its 4.
Those torpedoes usually only usefull in night battles. But then they can be decisive.
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Post by ramjb on May 22, 2019 10:22:03 GMT -6
In night battles you want your DDs to do the torping. Not your 43000 ton capital ship. Those torpedoes are both a huge fire hazard on the deck and are eating space and tons for situational scenarios where it's not supposed to go torping anyway.
Ditch the torpedoes, swap for DP 5'' secondaries, change the tertiary to double mounts, put as much AAA as you can on it, call it a day.
Don't bother with anything bigger, at least not under the BC label. 16'' guns are the most cost efficient ones and give you the best bang for the buck, 3.5'' of deck armor just doesn't cut it anymore for the era you're at, and you can't go heavier there with anything more as the game will not allow you to label it as a BC.
As capital ships I'd tell you to focus on fast BBs from now on. Keep the 16'' battery, aim for 27-28-ish knots, enough armor to get a proper immunity zone against similar guns, and swap focus to carriers and cruisers for the planes and the AAA respectively.
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Post by nemonole on May 22, 2019 10:47:59 GMT -6
Is the 'Max 2 Turrets with at most 7 guns between them' trick (well, trick is the wrong word; it's more a lesser known alternative requirement) still working to classify a ship as a BC? In RTW1 if you did that you could armor the ship however you wanted while still keeping it as a BC.
Would like to check if this holds up in RTW2 myself, but I'm in the 'eagerly waiting for alternative payment methods' crowd.
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Post by Antediluvian Monster on May 22, 2019 11:25:34 GMT -6
Is the 'Max 2 Turrets with at most 7 guns between them' trick (well, trick is the wrong word; it's more a lesser known alternative requirement) still working to classify a ship as a BC? In RTW1 if you did that you could armor the ship however you wanted while still keeping it as a BC. Would like to check if this holds up in RTW2 myself, but I'm in the 'eagerly waiting for alternative payment methods' crowd. Battleships that go at least 27 knots get pulled in cruiser engagements, so if it's at least that fast there is no need for classification trick. |
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Post by aeson on May 22, 2019 11:33:54 GMT -6
Is the 'Max 2 Turrets with at most 7 guns between them' trick (well, trick is the wrong word; it's more a lesser known alternative requirement) still working to classify a ship as a BC? Signs point to 'no.' |
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Post by Blothorn on May 22, 2019 12:19:14 GMT -6
Note that there is a difference between what the game auto-classifies as a certain class and what is a legal member of that class--in some cases you can say "no" to that popup and still save. (Useful when the game suggests that a rebuild of a 25-knot BC is a BB.)
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Post by dorn on May 22, 2019 14:03:33 GMT -6
Invincilbe class refit
I have another one possibility playing UK with veryl large fleet and 1920 start.
I have Invincible class battlecruisers which were in construction at 1920 start and 2 ships were commissioned in 1921. Righ now is year 1938 and ships are 17 years old.
However her 9x16" (Q0) guns have still quite a punch and ships are still quite powerful however their armour starts to be indadequate. So I am thinking of doing refit for them and use them next years.
Variant A - 75.5M - replaced engines, main guns replaced to 9x15" (Q1) guns with turret armour increased to 14.5" face, 5.5" top, increased deck armour from 4" to 5" Variant B - 44.3M - replaced engines, main guns remained 16" guns (Q0), turret armour remains on 12" face, 4.5" top, increased deck armour from 4" to 5"
Variant C - 34.7M - main guns replaced to 9x15" (Q1), turret armour increased to 14.5" face, 5.5" top, deck armour remains 4" thick, (note: forget to DP 5" guns, but think as it is added) Variant D - 3.5M - minimalistic refit upgrading only AA guns Variant E - 77.6M - replaced engines, speed increased to 30 knots (my standard BC speed), main guns replaced to 9x16" (Q1), turret armour increased to 14.5" face, 5.5" top, deck armour remains in 5" thick
What do you think about refit. What do you think is the best refit taking consideration costs and quality of refit.
Right now most modern US battlecruiser has 2x4x16" guns, 12" belt armour, speed 31 knots on 44700 tons displacement. Hoever they are still a lot of less powerful battlecruisers.
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Post by noshurviverse on May 22, 2019 14:26:30 GMT -6
My personal recommendation would be to increase the deck/turret top armor. 3.5/4 just won't cut it against post-40's shells, unless you can force close range fights. Of course, finding that weight might be an issue. Perhaps unifying the 6"/4" guns into a secondary battery of 5" DPs would work? Alternatively, bulge it for TPS-5 and some extra spending weight. My opinions on torpedoes mirror alot of other people's here; using a 40k ton BC as a torpedo platform is taking a huge risk.
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Post by deeznuts on May 22, 2019 14:30:01 GMT -6
D, for the price of a more extensive refit you could just build a new capital ship, and it’s still useful in its minimalistic refit state(besides by this point BC and BB become less important so it can be worth keeping older Battleships/Battlecruisers as carrier escorts to have money for carriers
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Post by stairmaster on May 22, 2019 14:37:58 GMT -6
Armor is for the weak. Don't go above 8 inches for your belt.
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Post by wknehring on May 22, 2019 15:06:52 GMT -6
Armor is for the weak. Don't go above 8 inches for your belt.
Yes! 8" belt, 7" deck and 5x4 15"Qu1 at 30+ knots is manly!  |
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Post by ramjb on May 23, 2019 1:39:54 GMT -6
Most of those rebuild variants have a price tag over 135.000 total. For that price you have more than half the cost of a new 45000 ton fast battleship covered. My personal opinion: A)Hit "Rebuild" B)Switch to DP for the 5'' battery C)Max out AA guns Be done with it, Save and exit, and just refit both ships. Meanwhile begin building a brand new fast battleship class. Chasing the power curve with a 18 year old ship just is not worth it. You'll still be well behind, and you'll have spent a fortune trying. |
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Post by dorn on May 23, 2019 2:49:50 GMT -6
Most of those rebuild variants have a price tag over 135.000 total. For that price you have more than half the cost of a new 45000 ton fast battleship covered. My personal opinion: A)Hit "Rebuild" B)Switch to DP for the 5'' battery C)Max out AA guns Be done with it, Save and exit, and just refit both ships. Meanwhile begin building a brand new fast battleship class. Chasing the power curve with a 18 year old ship just is not worth it. You'll still be well behind, and you'll have spent a fortune trying. You are looking at bad row. The rebuilds are between 35M and 78M.
Only Soviet Union has battlecrusiers with equal firepower, rest of battlecruisers have inferior firepower. Their belt armour is just slightly worse than other battlecruisers and refit can made their turret armour up to date.
So at the end I can get 2 ships which is slightly inferior overall with same costs as 1 new brand battlecruiser with same characteristics. So it certainly has sence, question is which one of the refits is the best one.
And I am UK so risking flash fire which such a ship is dangerous.
Note: I am in war with USA so refit will be done after the war. Right now I have only 6 relatively modern battlecruisers including this 2 so I will need them.
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