What are you hoping for from missiles?

[hmssophia]

We know missiles are coming - but we don't know what they'll look like.
I'm curious as to what the community is hoping for.

[klavohunter]

Nukes on all the missiles, just like real life! [/joking]

[abclark]

Most likely AAMs are going to be abstracted into firepower ratings, and thus are the easiest to get out of the way.

We've already seen a few glide bombs, but I hope that there will be a couple techs for them before they're replaced by basic air to surface missiles.

SAMs are very likely. They were actually being deployed right at the end of the game's time frame and I think they would be necessary to counter air to surface missiles.

SSMs are somewhat less likely in my opinion. Unless tech trees other than missiles are extended they really won't be useful or effective. In the late 1950s they were at best large, inaccurate standoff weapons that needed to be fired at long range radar contacts.

I don't expect cruise missiles. At that time they were very inaccurate and mostly used nuclear warheads, which are right out of the scope of the game.

[rodentnavy]

I am sort of hoping for something like Seaslug, a great huge missile that made quite the racket launching. Being interesting to use one in its heyday rather than after it had gone obsolete.

[zedfifty]

I am fascinated by the idea of SSGs assigned to strategic missions, with a minimum number required to maintain prestige, just like colonial duty. That, in turn, could force a peacetime ASW requirement.

The Talos and Terrier cruiser conversions were pretty interesting too.

[axe99]

Anti-air and air-to-surface would be what I'd expect in the timeframe. Things like harpoon seem a bit modern. I don't know much about the history of cruise missiles so just googled and they were apparently under development, but I can't recall reading much about them in a 'use at sea' way (although I do know the US launched a V1-alike from a sub in the post-war period), so can't really comment on that.

I'd also expect in the timeframe of the game for them to be expensive and slow to develop and relatively inaccurate. Given they were first on the scene operationally, I'd expect anti-ship missiles to get a run as well.

One thing that's probably important if this kind of thing gets into the game is some deepening of electronic warfare. As best I understand it (and I'm pretty limited in my understanding here - oldpop2000 can come along and set me straight ) there was a fair bit of missile-related ECM and ECCM, starting with WW2 (jammers against German radio-guided ordnance), and to get the gameplay right there'd need to be something there to make it 'work', although I imagine it would be similar to radar (ie, develop a new jammer, and get sets which are assigned to the fleet over time).

[dougphresh]

I want to see a BC, 1970 with:

20 × P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) AShM
14 × SS-N-14 Silex ASW cruise missiles 
96 × S-300F Fort SA-N-6 Grumble surface-to-air missiles 
48 × S-300F Fort and 48 S-300FM Fort-M (SA-N-20 Gargoyle) long-range SAM 
128 × 3K95 Kinzhal (SA-N-9 Gauntlet) point defense SAM
40 × OSA-MA (SA-N-4 Gecko) PD SAM

[alexbrunius]

Other:
I hope the developers start by fixing other core game mechanics that don't work like how armor weight is calculated before moving on to adding additional content like missiles.



None of the missile examples you can vote for to be added should be in the game if it supports tech only up to 1950.

Lark: Prototype never used
Talos: Entered service 1958
Harpoon: Entered service 1977
Sidewinder: Entered service 1956
Guided bombs: Already in the game and is motivated historically ( First example is from I think 1942 )
Reguls: Entered service 1955

[southkraut]

IMHO missiles, while absolutely cool and interesting, don't fit the time frame at all.

[dizzy]

May 27, 2019 2:38:23 GMT -6 alexbrunius said:

Other:
I hope the developers start by fixing other core game mechanics that don't work like how armor weight is calculated before moving on to adding additional content like missiles.



None of the missile examples you can vote for to be added should be in the game if it supports tech only up to 1950.

Lark: Prototype never used
Talos: Entered service 1958
Harpoon: Entered service 1977
Sidewinder: Entered service 1956
Guided bombs: Already in the game and is motivated historically ( First example is from I think 1942 )
Reguls: Entered service 1955

lol

[hmssophia]

Tbh I know most of my examples are out of era. They're intended as a display of concept rather than concrete examples

Personally I'd hope for a system quite like the aircraft design one. Starting in the mid 40s (or even 30s with luck, given the aggregat program) you'd be able to begin requesting design work on missiles. Initially they could only be based on bases but eventually you could get them on ships.

I'd expect to see Sam's, srbms (for attacking enemy bases) and maybe some very early ssm.
I'd hope to see aam as a firepower buff as someone mentioned up thread, as well as dumbfire rockets (perhaps as an alternate light armament for strike aircraft) and some other things.

[dizzy]

I want a DLC with missile tech that goes out to 1970. And yes, all the above in the OP.

[alsadius]

SAM, ASM, and SSM all seem important to any missile-based naval gameplay. AAM should be abstracted away, I think. And obviously, nuclear weapons should never be available in game - conventional cruise missiles are okay, but nukes eliminate big wars, and big wars are what make this fun. Yes, this is totally unrealistic, but fortunately I don't care. (I would be okay with nuclear propulsion, though.)

These systems all come into their own after the 1950 cutoff, so I'd say that the idea of a DLC that expands tech into the 1970s is probably wise for any serious missile play. I'd also like to design our own missiles, in much the same way that we currently design our own planes. 

Anti-missile systems also need to be included in one form or another, I think. It seems like the first successful anti-missile missile was circa 1960, and of course using machine guns to shoot down missiles happened as early as the V1s during WW2. Modern systems that could handle fast missiles took longer, but it looks like they were operational by the late 70s. 

The big question I have is what happens to battleships(and armour, more generally) if nukes are taken off the table? Most modern missiles don't have the weight of warhead to breach any serious armouring scheme, and while modern ships don't carry serious armour, I suspect they'd be pretty resilient if they did. I know that the missiles could be up-sized if needed, but then they're easier to shoot down, so it's not useless. It'd be a more interesting naval environment than the terrorist-smashing we get from RL navies, I'm sure. 

[charliezulu]

May 27, 2019 2:38:23 GMT -6 alexbrunius said:

None of the missile examples you can vote for to be added should be in the game if it supports tech only up to 1950.

Lark: Prototype never used
Talos: Entered service 1958
Harpoon: Entered service 1977
Sidewinder: Entered service 1956
Guided bombs: Already in the game and is motivated historically ( First example is from I think 1942 )
Reguls: Entered service 1955

This is somewhat true, but let's remember that RtW2 is set in an alt history where things that didn't work IRL end up being a thing.  Imperial Germany may never have fielded a 90,000 t capital ship with 20 16" guns, but there's nothing stopping you from doing that in game.  

As such, if we're going for a psuedo-historical basis of timeframes:

Lark, Fairey Stooge, Brakemine, Rheintochter, Nike Ajax, RSA-50, and a whole bunch of other primitive SAMs could have become fully operational in at least 1950 had events only happened slightly differently. 

Harpoon's an advanced missile, but guided surface-to-surface missiles existed since the V-1 and the guidance systems needed for naval targeting were also present before 1950 (MCLOS and beam-riding systems being developed by both the axis and allies, and the ASM-N-2 Bat being active radar homing).  Again, it'd be very easy to conceive of a situation where a combination of the two technologies is developed before 1950 in a situation where there are still large warship battles.


Sidewinder is a more modern AAM.  Primitive AAMs like the X-4 easily fall within the time frame.  

As you say, lots of glide bombs were developed before 1945, let alone 1950.  

Regulus entered service too late, but KGW-1 didn't, being operational in 1945.  

OP simply chose well-known examples of missiles instead of going for obscure options that most people would have to google.  I doubt anyone is expecting actual Harpoons given their maturity, but more people know about that than even otherwise ubiquitous tech like P-15s.

[alexbrunius]

May 27, 2019 11:20:16 GMT -6 charliezulu said:

Harpoon's an advanced missile, but guided surface-to-surface missiles existed since the V-1 and the guidance systems needed for naval targeting were also present before 1950 (MCLOS and beam-riding systems being developed by both the axis and allies, and the ASM-N-2 Bat being active radar homing).  Again, it'd be very easy to conceive of a situation where a combination of the two technologies is developed before 1950 in a situation where there are still large warship battles.

Well the V1s couldn't even hit a target the size of London properly, so I don't see how much use it could be against a warship to be honest and it was not guided as much as it was pre-aimed.