Armor for large ships scale on volume, not area

[christian]

Jun 4, 2019 20:23:23 GMT -6 williammiller said:

Note: The 1.03 update addresses this weight scaling issue to some degree: "Made armor slightly lighter on very large ships(> 45000 tons)."

Now, I don't personally know the specifics/internals of this change as of typing this so I cannot elaborate on it, but we will be looking at this more so AFAIK this is an interim step in addressing the issue.

Thanks!

for my 80k ship it gave me some 700 free tons

its far from realistic weight but its a step in the right direction

[dizzy]

Jun 4, 2019 20:23:23 GMT -6 williammiller said:

Note: The 1.03 update addresses this weight scaling issue to some degree: "Made armor slightly lighter on very large ships(> 45000 tons)."

Now, I don't personally know the specifics/internals of this change as of typing this so I cannot elaborate on it, but we will be looking at this more so AFAIK this is an interim step in addressing the issue.

Thanks!

It’s a move in the right direction and I welcome it. I do hope however that it’s not an abrupt change at exactly 45,000 tons and instead the change accumulates slowly over the course of thousands of tons so it’s less noticeable. I hear reports that at extreme tonnage for ships like Yamato historical builds, it’s not quite beneficial enough. So increase the armor benefit a little higher up you go. Thanks for getting this in there. Let’s tweak it now.

[christian]

im reviving this thread because since the update 1.03 there has not been a SINGULAR patch trying to adress the issue of how heavy armor is NOR any patch looking to fix the number of issues armor scaling has currently (aka its so broken its dumb especially 12k -19k tons)

and as i showed with my deck armor thread with penetration for alot of bomb weights armor in game is currently VERY MUCH UNDERPERFORMING NOT TO MENTION IT ALSO WEIGHTS ATLEAST 30% MORE THAN IT SHOULD

currently armor is far from as usefull as it should be ESPECIALLY AGAINST PLANES AND BOMBS


and as i wrote earlier my 90k ton design gave me a measly 700 tons extra free weight


from a design with more than 40k tons of weight in armor


current problems with armor weight
armor weight scaling to tonnage (especially from 5000 tons to 19000 tons it seems to be totally wack there)

armor generally weighting 33% too much as showed by @elexbrunius

(picture credit is alexbrunius again)

May 26, 2019 18:44:09 GMT 2 alexbrunius said:

Alright. I spent another hour or two on this and now I have more conclusive proof that the RTW2 armor formula in certain situations make little sense.



Observations:

- I noticed that armor tonnage scales with ship speed ( which makes sense since larger machinery = more needed armor to cover it ). For this reason I set the speed for all numbers to 27 knot oil firing.

- When we increase ship tonnage from about 12000 ton to about 19000 ton the cost in tons of adding 10" belt armor to a 27 know speed ship decreased to less than half! That does not make any sense at all to me.

- When we increase ship tonnage above 20000 ton both belt and deck armor increase significantly more aggressively than we would theoretically expect it to. Each time we increase the area of the ship by 10% armor weight increased by about 15% so we get roughly 50% more increase in armor tonnage weight than expected!



Due to the wonky logic defying twist of armor becoming lighter for larger ships around 12-19000 tons I choose to start my graphs after this by setting it as a baseline ( and 10" belt / 5" deck armor don't make much sense for smaller ships anyways ).



It should be possible to recreate the below numbers yourself by starting a 1920 game as UK, creating a new ship, setting speed to 27 knot + oil and then entering the same tonnage and belt/deck thickness numbers and observing the tonnage displayed in the "Weight" column in the designer.











Interestingly enough this seems to fit almost too good to be true with what elouda posted on page 1:



elouda Avatar

May 23, 2019 16:36:30 GMT 2 elouda said:

Probably the main issue is that armour is too heavy in game. Yamato's protection was around 23kton, or ~35% of her displacement, whereas ingame belt+deck at historical thicknesses is about 34-35kton (42-43% displacement). Interestingly, dropping them enough to bring the armour weight down to 23-24kton makes the design work at around 70kton displacement.

If we take the 34.5k ton Armor weight observed ingame and reduce it by -33% ( It is 50% heavier than what it should be theoretically ) we get.... drumroll:

34.5k * 0.6667 = 23.001



It turns out the real Yamato followed the laws of physics while the RTW2 armor formulas does not.

all of this can be found here nws-online.proboards.com/thread/2236/math-problem-build-yamato?page=3&scrollTo=46783

Attachments: