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Post by mycophobia on May 31, 2019 15:35:53 GMT -6
Are you playing with varied techs? I wonder if it plays with relative development rates for different aircraft types, so it isn't so clear which types are best from the outset. No varied tech, but then again I only have two game where I got far enough for DB, so it is a very small sample size.
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Post by christian on Jun 1, 2019 3:46:44 GMT -6
it really depends before ap bombs are available dive bombers are really only usefull against unarmored carriers light cruisers and destroyers they are more accurate but they still fail to do much against the other ships except for superstructure damage once ap bombs are unlocked these become engine room sniping bois they like to knock atleast a few knots off the enemy and also tend to do quite significant damage (turrets flooding and such) overall they become quite decent torpedo bombers remain really good they are the primary means of sinking capital ships because when you send in a squad of 20 torpedo bombers against an enemy carrier you are gonna get atleast 5 torpedo hits on the carrier which usually results in sinking overall i like to use a mix so on my 196 plane fleet carrier which has a 100 plane strike force i like to use as follow 50 torpedo bombers 30 dive bombers and 20 fighters i usually tend to have 40 fighters on each and fill the rest with 50 more tb bombers for reserve and then 26 dive bombers it does leave me weak to large carrier attacks because of the fighter escort numbers lacking but my aa is specifically buffed for that purpose also when adding an armored flight deck to carriers 3.5 inches is minimum for ap bombs while 2 inches can protect from decently sized normal bombs (sap) I apologize for being off subject but that's quite a carrier you describe above, christian. Would you mind posting a design screen for that beast? Have you run into any difficulties operating this ship's air group? so far it has not been sunk the flight deck armor denies all bomb hits and the torpedo protection denies all torpedo hits only once did it ever take damage from land based medium bombers which hit it with a guided bomb which went through the flight deck and through the hangar into the machinery and actually did quite some damage no dive bomber has majorly damaged it and its strike power is insane it can take on multiple enemy large carriers and not crumble the anti air power is also extremely good also to be noted this is the retrofitted version the diffrence is basically less speed in exchange for 4 more planes and also upgraded all guns by 1 inch when i got dp 6 inchers Attachments:
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Post by dorn on Jun 1, 2019 4:26:50 GMT -6
I apologize for being off subject but that's quite a carrier you describe above, christian. Would you mind posting a design screen for that beast? Have you run into any difficulties operating this ship's air group? so far it has not been sunk the flight deck armor denies all bomb hits and the torpedo protection denies all torpedo hits only once did it ever take damage from land based medium bombers which hit it with a guided bomb which went through the flight deck and through the hangar into the machinery and actually did quite some damage no dive bomber has majorly damaged it and its strike power is insane it can take on multiple enemy large carriers and not crumble the anti air power is also extremely good also to be noted this is the retrofitted version the diffrence is basically less speed in exchange for 4 more planes and also upgraded all guns by 1 inch when i got dp 6 inchers The spot value is quite high .....
Can you see any disadvantages relating to high number of planes as been confirmed by NWS team.
I have several armoured carriers however I have never used them. I get only once at serious trouble but it was limit to one carrier as she got 5 torpedoes and she was only 26000 tons so larger carriers about 40000 tons are difficult to sink by AI.
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Post by christian on Jun 1, 2019 6:04:34 GMT -6
so far it has not been sunk the flight deck armor denies all bomb hits and the torpedo protection denies all torpedo hits only once did it ever take damage from land based medium bombers which hit it with a guided bomb which went through the flight deck and through the hangar into the machinery and actually did quite some damage no dive bomber has majorly damaged it and its strike power is insane it can take on multiple enemy large carriers and not crumble the anti air power is also extremely good also to be noted this is the retrofitted version the diffrence is basically less speed in exchange for 4 more planes and also upgraded all guns by 1 inch when i got dp 6 inchers The spot value is quite high .....
Can you see any disadvantages relating to high number of planes as been confirmed by NWS team.
I have several armoured carriers however I have never used them. I get only once at serious trouble but it was limit to one carrier as she got 5 torpedoes and she was only 26000 tons so larger carriers about 40000 tons are difficult to sink by AI.
the problem is the larger the strike i prepare the longer it takes but the time drawbacks (diminishing returns in large spot values) is a worth while trade for the amount of strike power you get the fact you can launch 100 planes against the enemy carriers i find to be worth it because if you face off against 2 enemy carriers with 70 planes they can keep quite the heavy cap up and i need to get through that to some extent to allow my planes to drop their payload and deal damage thus i go for high spot value it also allows my carrier wing to suffer heavy damage and the carrier still having very heavy strike power also a heavy cap for defending the fleet
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Post by dizzy on Jun 1, 2019 6:08:56 GMT -6
While not as powerful as christian 's, I use this for my German campaign in 1953. It's my super carrier of the time for the new Jet Fighters (yes, click on Jet Fighters!), we get to play with in that era... I tend to use squadrons of 15. In my late 1930's era 40,000 ton carriers, I'll make sure I have at least a 45 spot value to launch 2x Torpedo and 1x Dive bomber squadrons out on a coordinated strike. Later, with this supper carrier beast, I have 6x Squadrons I can send out on coordinated strikes which is spectacularly devastating and leaves me with 4x max squadrons of fighters, of which in later years I suspect I'll need to have some cheap escort carriers that are strictly fighter oriented, as spot value is less important for a fighter escort carrier. I sometimes hold back half the strike group and send two waves. This maximizes the enemy having to conduct evasive maneuvers and allows me to position my fleet for kill shots.
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Post by dizzy on Jun 1, 2019 6:10:21 GMT -6
Be nice to get nuclear power. I desperately need a Long Range carrier.
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Post by christian on Jun 1, 2019 6:17:48 GMT -6
While not as powerful as christian 's, I use this for my German campaign in 1953. It's my super carrier of the time for the new Jet Fighters (yes, click on Jet Fighters!), we get to play with in that era... I tend to use squadrons of 15. In my late 1930's era 40,000 ton carriers, I'll make sure I have at least a 45 spot value to launch 2x Torpedo and 1x Dive bomber squadrons out on a coordinated strike. Later, with this supper carrier beast, I have 6x Squadrons I can send out on coordinated strikes which is spectacularly devastating and leaves me with 4x max squadrons of fighters, of which in later years I suspect I'll need to have some cheap escort carriers that are strictly fighter oriented, as spot value is less important. I sometimes hold back have the strike group and send two waves. This maximizes the enemy having to conduct evasive maneuvers and allows me to position my fleet for kill shots. what i notice at first sight on your carrier is the lack of larger secondary and tertiary dual purpose guns which seem to decrease the aa capability by alot comparing mine to yours for example another thing is your ship has an insane amount of armor on it for a carrier which realistically should never face surface warships (this combined with the low gun count makes it unsuited for surface warfare against anything despite its armor) also a torpedo mount ? also how do you do the ship graphics so well is there a way to pixel edit the pictures in the files or what because having my ships look better (if i can pixel edit them) would be very very nice with regards to stike size i find lots of smaller strikes are much easier to intercept with my fighters and aa units as there are less planes i need to focus firing on swarming i have noticed has a degrading effect on the enemies aa the more planes attack at once the less losses i suffer this could also be because the defensive fire of my bombers is better because there are more thus enemy fighters have more trouble and in addition to my jet fighter planes the enemy usually cannot defend from my large attacks
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Post by JagdFlanker on Jun 1, 2019 6:29:10 GMT -6
Can you see any disadvantages relating to high number of planes as been confirmed by NWS team.
assuming this is what you are asking, the manual says "CVs that carry more than 100 planes will be penalized with slower air operations, added costs, and excess weight required in the design"
i assume that means up to 100 there is no penalty, 101 or more there is - but it's not worded 100% clearly
i'v been operating 100 plane CVs and they seem to work ok as far as launching/recovering/turn-around goes
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Post by dizzy on Jun 1, 2019 6:33:08 GMT -6
I can email you the .40d file, or maybe attach it here so anyone can use this ship drawing by simply dropping it into your respective save folder. If I knew how to pixel edit, this ship would look cleaner. As it stands, I wanted a Nimitz lookalike, but the 24 point limitation for each Superstructure point wouldn't let me put the 4 carrier lifts in. So I settled for a Ford class lookalike. Still looks bad ass with deck edge lifts and an angled flight deck. On the points of my design, I the two deck armors to stop bombs from dive bombers. Still no clear word from the Devs on how much armor you need for various size bombs and AP bombs. The rest of the armor is designed to defend against night time close encounters of DD and CL guns. The lesser HAA is a problem, yes. Maybe with more dock tonnage I could beef that up. But right now my CAP is doing what my guns aren't. Am I happy with this design, no, of course not, we always want more, and in this case, I could use more Range, more HAA like you mention and more air capacity. My apologies to the OP. We went way off topic. I blame jwsmith26! So, I like using an even number of Dive Bombers and Torpedo planes in later years, as Dive Bombs in the 1940's have gotten larger in size and more devastating in effect and have AP by then. Before that, I like a 2 to 1 ratio of Torpedo to Dive planes because torpedoes seem a bit more deadly. What I'd like to know from the Devs, is before the advent of AP bombs for dive bombers, do those bombs do more superstructure damage than hull damage? How does that work?
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Post by christian on Jun 1, 2019 6:50:44 GMT -6
I can email you the .40d file, or maybe attach it here so anyone can use this ship drawing by simply dropping it into your respective save folder. If I knew how to pixel edit, this ship would look cleaner. As it stands, I wanted a Nimitz lookalike, but the 24 point limitation for each Superstructure point wouldn't let me put the 4 carrier lifts in. So I settled for a Ford class lookalike. Still looks bad ass with deck edge lifts and an angled flight deck. On the points of my design, I the two deck armors to stop bombs from dive bombers. Still no clear word from the Devs on how much armor you need for various size bombs and AP bombs. The rest of the armor is designed to defend against night time close encounters of DD and CL guns. The lesser HAA is a problem, yes. Maybe with more dock tonnage I could beef that up. But right now my CAP is doing what my guns aren't. Am I happy with this design, no, of course not, we always want more, and in this case, I could use more Range, more HAA like you mention and more air capacity. My apologies to the OP. We went way off topic. I blame jwsmith26 ! So, I like using an even number of Dive Bombers and Torpedo planes in later years, as Dive Bombs in the 1940's have gotten larger in size and more devastating in effect and have AP by then. Before that, I like a 2 to 1 ratio of Torpedo to Dive planes because torpedoes seem a bit more deadly. What I'd like to know from the Devs, is before the advent of AP bombs for dive bombers, do those bombs do more superstructure damage than hull damage? How does that work? how the hell do you get 24 points im stuck with 12 ?
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Post by dizzy on Jun 1, 2019 7:00:52 GMT -6
Click the asymmetric superstructure checkmark box underneath the ship window. You can start with a point using asymmetric and then in the middle of drawing a line, uncheck the box. Good luck.
Edit, St1 is usually structure under the main deck for things like lifts or gun emplacements that the main deck will draw over. St2 is more of the same. St3 is the main carrier deck drawing. Its the main outline minus the lifts. Barely got this done in 24 points. St4 are the landing lines for the angled deck. St5 are the forward take off lines St6 is the island control tower.
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Post by christian on Jun 1, 2019 7:30:04 GMT -6
Click the asymmetric superstructure checkmark box underneath the ship window. You can start with a point using asymmetric and then in the middle of drawing a line, uncheck the box. Good luck. Edit, St1 is usually structure under the main deck for things like lifts or gun emplacements that the main deck will draw over. St2 is more of the same. St3 is the main carrier deck drawing. Its the main outline minus the lifts. Barely got this done in 24 points. St4 are the landing lines for the angled deck. St5 are the forward take off lines St6 is the island control tower. ooooooooooo nice this changes so much
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 1, 2019 11:38:37 GMT -6
In my Austria-Hungary playthrough I noticed that torpedo bombers seemed to be much better than dive bombers in the teens, 20s, and maybe early 30s at which point dive bombers began reigning supreme and torpedo bombers struggled to damage enemy ships. Or maybe that was just me fighting Britain rather than one of my normal enemies. But yeah, dive bombers seem better in the late 30s and 40s at least. I'll note that historically Allied torpedo bombers became much more effective towards the end of the war as the Allies figured out how to make torpedoes reliably droppable from high speed and altitude, at which point high performance TBs could drop a torpedo fairly far out timed to hit the water just short enough of the target to have sufficient distance to arm, which meant that TBs were significantly less engagable while delivering much more accurately (with the shorter distance actually in the water).
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