Campaign and battle - Intel/FOW

[kyle]

I've downloaded the demo and played some battles.  Good idea limiting the time, just when things get interesting I get stopped!  If I want more I have to pay (sneaky, but probably effective

I have some questions about the reports I get.  In tactical mode (battle) I see that I get information on enemy hits and shell size.  I also have destroyed a couple British BC's from magazine explosions - so know about those reports.  I have not seen any reports indicating that an enemy ship is on fire, listing, slowing, has a main gun turret knocked out, things like that.  If I keep playing the demo will these sorts of reports eventually show up?  

For the campaign, which I don't have a demo for - how do I get reports about sunk enemy ships, damaged ships, fleet reports, etc?  Does the British side have room 40 intel (and can I play it without)?  If I end a battle playing as the British, and the Lutzow sinks on the way home, out of sight - would I know that?  Once contact is lost from the tactical battle mode - do damaged ships that are on fire or flooding potentially continue to take damage and may sink out of sight?

Thanks!

[fredsanford]

If you zoom in close enough, you'll see graphics on the ships showing turrets destroyed/disabled, and fires. If you hold your mouse over the enemy ship, you'll get a readout with an estimate of it's speed and condition.

Post battle info is pretty comprehensive, down to shells fired, hits, damage level/sunk status, so on.

In the campaign, you'll have a status list of both side's losses to date, and even a map that plots where. So you can see the dot for the Lutzow just outside Helgoland, showing it didn't quite make it home. It's not so nice when a severely damaged ship of yours suddenly gives you a "bulkhead ruptured" notice as the weather turns bad on its way home after a battle.

[randomizer]

I'm not familiar with the demo but if you place the cursor over an enemy ship that is currently positively identified, a tool tip will open with some details of the damage that you have detected. This may not be definitive however but ongoing fires are shown by fire graphics effects on the ship that includes additional smoke.

how do I get reports about sunk enemy ships, damaged ships, fleet reports, etc?

After a campaign scenario is complete the statistics dialog provides detailed info on hits and losses. During the Planning phase you may open the Status window which gives a running total of all losses and provides a map displaying where each loss occurred along with details of the loss and any operational history of the casualty. You can also display the track charts of all forces with filters for displaying Force flagships etc.

Does the British side have room 40 intel (and can I play it without)?

Yes and No. Germany and Russia (for the Baltic Campaign) also have SIGINT assets.

if I end a battle playing as the British, and the Lutzow sinks on the way home, out of sight - would I know that?

Generally not during the scenario but her loss will show up in the statistics window after the scenario concludes. On occasion you may have the option to rescue survivors of a sunken ship if a DD or CL passes the scene of the sinking and this can also provide you with information that such and such a ship has sunk but this can happen when the scenario is still running. Rescued survivors will tell you the name of their ship.

Once contact is lost from the tactical battle mode - do damaged ships that are on fire or flooding potentially continue to take damage and may sink out of sight?

Yes and ships, flooding and fires may spread beyond the ability of the ship's damage control and or they may take additional damage, sometimes fatal from bad weather and heavy seas. If enemy, you may not know about it until the scenario ends.

[kyle]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe the intel in the time was good enough where as an admiral I'd find out about the losses of enemy ships post battle? I honestly don't know that so I suppose can't be too critical! I like fog of war, so hope that my sighting reports can be well off the mark at times, things like that.

[randomizer]

Typically they were able to surmise much after the fact. For example after the Scarborough Raid in December 1914, both sides were able to determine that the German's had missed a great opportunity while the Grand Fleet may well have dodged a bullet. Likewise the British tried but failed to keep the loss of HMS Audacious secret but having newsreels of her blowing up and sinking (using film taken by American passengers of RMS Olympic watching the event), made this impossible. Jellicoe was certain that he sank SMS Lutzow at Jutland and the Germans finally admitted her loss a couple of days after the battle.

So the reality was that both sides were able to determine what had happened with reasonable accuracy, all things considered. SAI does provide unambiguous information after the fact but during a campaign turn, sightings and reports can be in error as to force compositions, locations and courses while there is frequently a built in time delay so that sightings may be several hours old when the Player receives them. While you have more information than in the event, some of the important stuff provided during the course of a scenario my be inaccurate, late or both.

The British have a slight advantage with Room-40 in determining when German forces are at sea but as in the actual war, its information is not at all omniscient or always timely.

[kyle]

Are spotting reports from subs, etc reasonably accurate as far as location and make up of enemy forces? I can picture a U boat not only having the location of the sighting off by many miles, but also the make up of the forces seen (they report battle cruisers but it's really a destroyer flotilla).

I like the idea of thinking I know the enemy fleet will appear out of the mist with me crossing the T only to discover my sighting reports were off and they appear somewhere more unexpected. Ah the days before GPS!

[randomizer]

You place your submarines when planning a campaign scenario but the boats move about under AI control and you have no accurate information as to their precise locations. One effect of this is that submarine sighting reports may occur at locations some distance from where you placed the submarine. Otherwise comparing the sighting reports to the track charts from the end of the scenario indicates that the reports may vary in the accuracy of the given location. This reflects the fact that the boat's navigator may not have an accurate position plotted for his actual location. Submarine reports are generally delayed by a considerable amount of time to reflect the necessity for the boat to surface once any threat has passed, rig the HF antennas (one to send and another to receive), transmit the encoded signal, get a receipt response from their HQ and have that HQ advise you of the contact report. It may take several hours from the time of the sighting to when the contact message fires on your screen and you have no way of knowing how accurate the original sighting might have been.

Because you do not have immediate knowledge of the locations of friendly subs, fratricide is possible, you may attack and sink one of your own boats or they might attack one of your surface ships. This is rare but it does happen occasionally. It is often wise to stay away from your own submarine patrol areas lest they attack you or send a enemy sighting report that originated from the boat sighting your own forces. All these things actually happened from time to time.

[kyle]

In the zoomed in fleet display - I see a red circle midship on a Lion class when I get a hit report. I see gray dots and white dots also. Assume the red circle denotes the hit, grays must be near misses and white just plain misses?
I could not tell if the ships were on fire or had a turret damaged/destroyed, they seemed to all be pointing the same way. that could be because they weren't damaged though!

I had Lion and Tiger both blow up in the same minute. Just curious - do the Grand Fleet BB's have the same odds of 'going up' with a penetrating turret hit as the BC's? I'm getting tired of the demo - going to have to buy myself something for Christmas, I think

[Fredrik W]

Ships that are fired upon have white circles around them representing shell splashes. Hits are as you surmise denoted by a red circle (or more usually a dot if you are zoomed out). Not sure what the grey dots you describe are.

Destroyed turrets are black, turrets temporarily out of action are dark grey. But if a ship suffers a catastrophic explosion due to a turret hit, there won't be time to see anything before the ship is sunk. You can study the hit log after the battle though, and you will then see which hit caused the explosion (and which ship fired the shell).

BC:s are more likely to blow up than BB:s. There is also a national modifier which makes British ships more likely to blow up in general. Having two go within a minute seems like awfully bad luck though.

[kyle]

Hi Fredrik - I was playing the German side so it was good luck!

I just ordered the game so will be able to take advantage of a longer battle.  Having the Lion and Tiger blow up within a minute of one another at Dogger bank then having the demo stop me shortly after my moment of victory was frustrating!

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2014 15:01:58 GMT -6 randomizer said:

Because you do not have immediate knowledge of the locations of friendly subs, fratricide is possible, you may attack and sink one of your own boats or they might attack one of your surface ships. This is rare but it does happen occasionally.

Proof :