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Post by ca022002 on Jun 12, 2019 14:59:40 GMT -6
I have a few campaigns under my belt and I am happy (for the most part) with my most recently completed a game with Japan. It went pretty well, I got into three wars in 55 years, 2 vs Russia and one vs France. I won more battles that I lost, but I noticed that my Battleships rarely made an appearance. They may have been present in 10% of battles, the enemy's BBs showed up a bit more frequently, maybe 15-20% of the time. I am not here to complain about the random battle generator. I suspect that there are things I can do to influence how often my big ships get into combat, I would like to discover those tricks I don't have a huge amount of historical knowledge of naval combat so some of my questions may seem a little silly to more experienced Admirals. I know a big limiter of when big ships can fight is battle type, they are not going to show up in cruiser or destroyer only actions. They sometimes show up for things like shore bombardment or fleet engagements. Is there any way to make certain types of battles more common? Certain battle types, like shore bombardment or invasion support would require things on the map to be generated, but I can't discern any pattern to how the other battle types are offered. In a war I find I get into 2-3 battles a month, this seems pretty common with other users. I've also read that if you have no CAs then BCs can be used in cruiser engagements, is this confirmed? Does any element of ship design or technology influence how often a ship sees combat? Does having radar or floatplanes on board make it more likely they detect the enemy and go into battle? Does a higher speed make a ship more likely to be included in a battle if they are in the right zone? I suspect my BBs were slower than average. I would imagine status (Active Fleet, Raider, Trade Protection) affects the type of battle a ship is included in, has anyone had success in using BBs in roles other than Active Fleet? I suppose lastly, if none of the above matters, is building Battleships a good idea? In theory you could get by with Battlecruisers and smaller, so long as you can outrun the enemy if they outgun you. Are there any general rules of thumb for fleet composition, like tonnage or type percentages?
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Post by rob06waves2018 on Jun 12, 2019 15:34:19 GMT -6
BBs tend to be more strategic units outside of large fleet battles so 10% of battles is probably about right. As in real life, their main purpose is to look mean and nasty to scare an enemy into submission. You always need them though because: -your countrymen will hang you as a traitor if you don't -they are massively useful for blockading, which is the most efficient way to bring down an enemy -A large ship is much more useful as a fleet-in-being ship as it is less susceptible to random 'kill' events (mining, torpedo etc) -The gun range they fight at is only combatible before aircraft with other BBs
You can, however, increase the amount of battles if you want by: -Just putting BBs in one area. They'll get called upon more but won't have escorts and the game may penalise you for battles as there aren't any of the right type of ship -building BBs faster than 26 knts which will allow them to show up in cruiser battles -Having fewer BBs in an area than the enemy meaning they'll be more likely to accept a fleet battle
All of these options are risky in some way but they will get your BBs mobilised more often. I would recommend very good armour/AA if you try them though. Remember, it's better to lose 8 CLs than a BB.
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Post by yemo on Jun 12, 2019 15:36:57 GMT -6
Yeah, the 27knot hard limit.
To be prepared for slower than designed builds, design BBs for at least 28knots.
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infi
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by infi on Jun 12, 2019 15:48:03 GMT -6
You just aren't going to get many fleet battles as Japan simply because you don't share a home area with anybody but Russia, and the AI doesn't send lots of ships across the world.
BC's get better engagement rolls, but BB's can get into cruiser fights if they are 26 knots or above pretty regularly.
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Post by yemo on Jun 12, 2019 15:53:57 GMT -6
infi: I m pretty sure 27knots is the limit and 26 knots is treated just like 16knots
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jma286
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by jma286 on Jun 12, 2019 16:35:12 GMT -6
Yeah, the 27knot hard limit. To be prepared for slower than designed builds, design BBs for at least 28knots. Or you could just be a save scummer like me and feel safe with a 27 knot design. In all seriousness, BBs rarely saw action in real life. Of all the naval battles of the game period, only a small minority featured direct BB engagements. Obviously much of that is a product of tactics (Germany and Austria being content to hide in port for most of WW1) and major force imbalances (Germany and Italy vs the Royal Navy in WW2), but it makes perfect sense that cruisers are the primary surface combatants in the game. They can intercept raiders, wreck convoys, and effectively fight 75% of the enemy's warships with far less risk than a BB. I think the game still gives plenty of opportunities for BB combat, probably more than you'd expect IRL: Fleet Battles, Battleship Engagements, Raids on Enemy Shipping, and Defense Against Raids on Shipping.
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 12, 2019 16:44:40 GMT -6
It bears remembering that the number of battleship/battlecruiser engagements that occurred historically was quite limited. The Russo-Japanese war had three, WWI had two, WWII had a number of small battleship engagements with one or two BBs on each side, and one semi-big one with lots of US BBs versus two Japanese, but the war was dominated by air power.
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Post by mycophobia on Jun 12, 2019 17:50:06 GMT -6
If you are playing as Japan, one thing to bare in mind is that AI don't like to send the entirety of their fleet over to fight you. (Russia might be the exception here). Therefore you are less likely to see "fleet battle" where most of your BBs are guaranteed to be present.
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Post by ramjb on Jun 12, 2019 21:36:00 GMT -6
and one semi-big one with lots of US BBs versus two Japanese, but the war was dominated by air power. To be completely anal about it (and I tend to be in anything related to history ), it was one japanese battleship only. Two entered Surigao strait, true, but Fuso had already gone down by the time Lee's battleships opened fire. Which kinda makes the whole thing even more sad than what it already was..
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snwh
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by snwh on Jun 12, 2019 22:45:45 GMT -6
I get a fair amount of BB engagements as japan. Usually it happens when both me and the enemy have a similar force of BB's (or I ave somewhat less).
The most common ones are when im invading a territory. Usually the enemy BB's show up to block me, which turns into a rather large fight.
But I also get plenty of just normal fleet battles. Especially against russia and GB.
Building faster BB's is also a good tip, but I don't think its even that necessary, as far as fleet battles go.
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Post by stevethecat on Jun 13, 2019 0:37:30 GMT -6
With Japan a group of my newest battleships went their entire careers with never being spawned by the battle generator, even with engagements in home waters.
I have now stopped building any cruisers as it's the only way to force the game to stop giving m a single cruiser to fight off an enemy battlecruiser division.
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Post by jorgencab on Jun 13, 2019 5:51:32 GMT -6
There are no reason to build or keep any Armoured Cruisers or Heavy Cruisers around if there are no limitations in place to force you to build them. They don't really serve any purpose beyond the first few years of the game until battle cruisers are available. You can even send out your BC as raiders once in a while if there are enemy CA trying to raid you, they will promptly thwart the enemy cruisers. Otherwise CL are way more cost effective for raiding purposes, numbers are more important than quality when it comes to raiding anyway. The only reason I put a BC on raiding would be to counter some enemy CA operating in the area.
I'm also not sure if it is more efficient to put your ships on trade protection or raiding to engage enemy raiders, they seem to both be able to do that. As raiders they will also sink enemy transports as a bonus though.
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Post by polyarmus on Jun 13, 2019 7:25:29 GMT -6
Yeah, the 27knot hard limit. To be prepared for slower than designed builds, design BBs for at least 28knots. Or you could just be a save scummer like me and feel safe with a 27 knot design. In all seriousness, BBs rarely saw action in real life. Of all the naval battles of the game period, only a small minority featured direct BB engagements. Obviously much of that is a product of tactics (Germany and Austria being content to hide in port for most of WW1) and major force imbalances (Germany and Italy vs the Royal Navy in WW2), but it makes perfect sense that cruisers are the primary surface combatants in the game. They can intercept raiders, wreck convoys, and effectively fight 75% of the enemy's warships with far less risk than a BB. I think the game still gives plenty of opportunities for BB combat, probably more than you'd expect IRL: Fleet Battles, Battleship Engagements, Raids on Enemy Shipping, and Defense Against Raids on Shipping. While I agree with your conclusion, the actual reality of the game is quite a bit different, at least in my experience. The issue are the BCs the AI is building, as these are generally fast BBs and the fact, that often the AI does not have anything else then BCs...
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jma286
Junior Member
Posts: 97
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Post by jma286 on Jun 13, 2019 10:28:53 GMT -6
Or you could just be a save scummer like me and feel safe with a 27 knot design. In all seriousness, BBs rarely saw action in real life. Of all the naval battles of the game period, only a small minority featured direct BB engagements. Obviously much of that is a product of tactics (Germany and Austria being content to hide in port for most of WW1) and major force imbalances (Germany and Italy vs the Royal Navy in WW2), but it makes perfect sense that cruisers are the primary surface combatants in the game. They can intercept raiders, wreck convoys, and effectively fight 75% of the enemy's warships with far less risk than a BB. I think the game still gives plenty of opportunities for BB combat, probably more than you'd expect IRL: Fleet Battles, Battleship Engagements, Raids on Enemy Shipping, and Defense Against Raids on Shipping. While I agree with your conclusion, the actual reality of the game is quite a bit different, at least in my experience. The issue are the BCs the AI is building, as these are generally fast BBs and the fact, that often the AI does not have anything else then BCs... Yes, if you focus heavily on slow BBs in the early game then you risk being outmatched in cruiser battles until your BC and BB lines merge into 27+ knot fast battleships sometime in the late 20s-early 30s.
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Post by rimbecano on Jun 13, 2019 16:26:43 GMT -6
With Japan a group of my newest battleships went their entire careers with never being spawned by the battle generator, even with engagements in home waters. The battle generator certainly leaves something to be desired, at times, but keep in mind that HMS Dreadnought was never once spawned by the battle generator either. ;-)
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